chip spewing, eh?

o0mr_bill0o · #1 05-18-2005, 02:23 PM

Basically, I felt that the raiser would almost certainly play overcards like this... but i still can't tell if i was spewing chips or taking a very slight edge here...

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, CO checks.

River: (11 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, CO calls, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Same sort of thing here:

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (14 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

Argus · #2 05-18-2005, 04:16 PM

Hand one I don't mind folding preflop because it leads to making difficult marginal decisions post flop most of the time. Playing it is ok too - I estimate this hand to be about neutral EV, or slightly positive with honed postflop skills. I think you played it well. I like betting into the preflop raiser hoping he will raise overcards to clear the field. If he raises the flop and bets the turn I think you can fold the river UI, but since it was checked around on the jack you should call the river. I know it takes a better hand to overcall than to call, but I can imagine UTG+2 bluffing and CO calling with a smaller pair one time in 14 at least.

The second hand is interesting too: I think the preflop call is very obvious this time. The field is smaller by one, but being suited is a great advantage in multi-way pots. You played the flop well - raise to push out the field because you have middle pair and two backdoor draws. On the turn I really think you should 3-bet. The only hand I can put SB on that you are behind is KK, and AA, AK, and KQs all could play the same way and are more likely holdings. When you are making decisions like this try to put villain on a range of hands and choose the play that is most profitable based on that range. In this case there are too many non-KK hands and a third player padding the pot to consider calling down from the check/raise. If he caps the turn I call down, otherwise continue aggression unless a non-seven heart falls.

o0mr_bill0o · #3 05-18-2005, 04:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand one I don't mind folding preflop because it leads to making difficult marginal decisions post flop most of the time. Playing it is ok too - I estimate this hand to be about neutral EV, or slightly positive with honed postflop skills. I think you played it well. I like betting into the preflop raiser hoping he will raise overcards to clear the field. If he raises the flop and bets the turn I think you can fold the river UI, but since it was checked around on the jack you should call the river. I know it takes a better hand to overcall than to call, but I can imagine UTG+2 bluffing and CO calling with a smaller pair one time in 14 at least.

The second hand is interesting too: I think the preflop call is very obvious this time. The field is smaller by one, but being suited is a great advantage in multi-way pots. You played the flop well - raise to push out the field because you have middle pair and two backdoor draws. On the turn I really think you should 3-bet. The only hand I can put SB on that you are behind is KK, and AA, AK, and KQs all could play the same way and are more likely holdings. When you are making decisions like this try to put villain on a range of hands and choose the play that is most profitable based on that range. In this case there are too many non-KK hands and a third player padding the pot to consider calling down from the check/raise. If he caps the turn I call down, otherwise continue aggression unless a non-seven heart falls.

[/ QUOTE ]

i was very torn between 3-betting and just calling. if it were just me and the villain, i would have almost certainly 3-bet. however, I felt that utg+1 would probably fold if i 3-bet, but he would almost certainly call if i just called, and would call more than he would fold on the river. so, my thought was that i would get more bets in the pot this way. raising would have taken one extra bet from the villain, calling gets two bets from utg+1.

brettbrettr · #4 05-18-2005, 04:42 PM

Hand 1: bet river.
Hand 2: Looks good. I might reraise the turn against aggro players. Hard to put this guy on exactly KK or AA.

crunchy1 · #5 05-18-2005, 04:53 PM

I'd 3-bet for value on the turn in the 2nd hand.

ckessel · #6 05-18-2005, 05:33 PM

Hand 1:
I like the though, you've got top pair. Unfortunately, you're out of position. I think I let the PFR bet and see the action. You've got great relative position where you can see how the entire board reacts to the bet before commiting yourself.

The turn: I think I bet out at this point. This is a reasonably good card as it doesn't complete any flush or straight. If you bet and UTG raises, it pressures anyone with a draw. If you get raised, you've got odds to call and see the river with your gutshot/trips possibility (2pair is badly tainted, I don't count those). If it's not raised, you've likely got the best hand.

The river: Great card. Bet out, I think you've got the best hand more often than not.

Hand 2: Hmm, tough call, but I think I like it. Big pot, you can pressure everyone with a draw. That K sucks, but you're in such a good spot to force people out. Turn/River - you've got 2-pair with no flush or straight, so I think I 3-bet. Since the SB raised preflop the only likely hand he holds that beats you is KKK (66 is unlikely as you hold a 6, and raising 55 preflop from the SB is really agressive).

Argus · #7 05-18-2005, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i was very torn between 3-betting and just calling. if it were just me and the villain, i would have almost certainly 3-bet. however, I felt that utg+1 would probably fold if i 3-bet, but he would almost certainly call if i just called, and would call more than he would fold on the river. so, my thought was that i would get more bets in the pot this way. raising would have taken one extra bet from the villain, calling gets two bets from utg+1.

[/ QUOTE ]
You want utg+1 to fold, chances are he's on a draw to beat you for either the flush or a better two pair. He would not be incorrect to call with either of those draws if you 3-bet, and he is definitely correct to call with either of those when you call.