what do you do when flop open ended but a pair on board

badbill7 · #1 05-15-2005, 03:20 AM

decent players at table like to trap

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero folds, MP2 folds, Button calls, SB folds.

River: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 raises, Button folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Kumubou · #2 05-15-2005, 03:23 AM

Bet it, as the odds of someone having TT, QQ, or QT are really slim. You have a fat equity edge on the flop (versus that many players), use it! (Although it is lessoned by the board being paired -- you can only get scurred once it double pairs, though).

At 5:1, folding that turn is weaksauce. You are ~4:1 to make your straight (and a K may win the hand anyway), plus implied odds.

-K

SoftcoreRevolt · #3 05-15-2005, 03:26 AM

I don't think I'd call the "trapping" they plan decent.

Anyway, bet the flop. If someone has a Ten, it doesn't really matter. No one has the set of queens, so all we need to worry about is QT. There's so many people in this flop, and you have an equity edge. With so many people in I'd be more worried about the two clubs taking away two of your 8 outs, but not terribly worried.

scotty34 · #4 05-15-2005, 03:57 AM

AT and T9 are also hands that should worry you. But yes, bet the flop, get some money in that pot when you likely have a pretty good equity edge. You would have easily had odds to make a turn call had you bet the flop. I think I actually like the turn fold given the fact that you did not bet the flop. I definetly would not give the full 8 outs to this hand. I think it is probably closer to 5 or 6. A club could make us an expensive 2nd best hand, as could a 9 or A that fills someone up.

SoftcoreRevolt · #5 05-15-2005, 04:02 AM

Forgot about those two, very interesting possibilities in this hand.

QTip · #6 05-15-2005, 07:40 AM

Not a fan of this PF call....

Anyway, since you're in the hand, I chime in with the rest here, bet the flop.

TomBrooks · #7 05-15-2005, 08:13 AM

Grunching

Q: What do you do when you flop open ended straight draw but there is a pair on the board.

A: 1. You bet the flop. 2. If it gets raised, as long as there are two or more callers you keep raising it. 3. When there are six people left on the turn, you raise that too.

For Extra credit: 4. If a Q or three to a suit comes on the turn, you slow down.

What's my score?

Edit: I just realized you folded the turn. For More Extra Credit, 5. That was awful.

QTip · #8 05-15-2005, 08:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If it gets raised, as long as there are two or more callers you keep raising it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not good. Run some PokerStove simulations and you'll see why.

Nick Royale · #9 05-15-2005, 09:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You are ~4:1 to make your straight

[/ QUOTE ]
~5:1

QTip · #10 05-15-2005, 09:15 AM

I like your analysis here scotty. The only thing I would add is that Tx and any pp are concerns are well. People are talking about implied odds in this hand, but they're not great. At no point in this hand can you 3 bet. Let's say you caught the straight on the turn and bet and a passive fish raises you, can you really 3 bet the turn (especially if it was the 9 or A of clubs)?

I didn't mind the turn fold either after the pot was smaller from not having bet the flop.