ruh roh - AJo is my biggest loser...

o0mr_bill0o · #1 05-14-2005, 12:33 PM

Okay, so I've been doing pretty well lately, so I've been taking a look at my pokertracker stats to see what can be better. and in doing so I noticed that AJo was my worst hand (-.44 bb/hand over 134 hands). I can't recall any hands that I thought were problematic, so I'm just picking three hands completely randomly and posting them. I'll probably post three more later, and keep going till I have a good idea of what i'm doing wrong.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 6 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 5.25 BB

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 4 folds, Button calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, Button folds.

River: (7 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, BB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

ThePimpulator · #2 05-14-2005, 12:54 PM

You can check the turn in hand 3.

Luv2DriveTT · #3 05-14-2005, 01:11 PM

Hand #1 - Generally I don't play AJo until the middle positions. Its not the most robust of hands to play pre-flop that early.

Hand #2 - Pre-flop I won't raise anything smaller than AQs against a field. If it was just the button limping in then I wouldn't hesitate to raise AJo here, but in this scenario you should limp. Played ok otherwise, you got owned I assume?

Hand #3 - Again... bad pre-flop raise. The turn is 50/50 check or bet for me, both actions work fine. Otherwise average hand.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

dtbog · #4 05-14-2005, 01:14 PM

Did you get rivered in hand 2? This looks a lot more like AT/TT to me than AK/AQ/a seven.

-dB

Bob T. · #5 05-14-2005, 01:21 PM

Sample size is likely a problem here. How are you doing with other related hands AQo, ATo, and A9o?

Hand 1 and Hand 2 seem reasonable.

On hand 3, you have three opponents, I think you can checkfold when you miss, and have no draws at all.

brazilio · #6 05-14-2005, 01:22 PM

Making blanket statements like that in #2 and #3 is a mistake, I think. I judge whether I have an equity raise and base it a lot on their VP$IP, their willingness to see extra streets after preflop aggression when I blank and they've got a junk pair, etc. I mean AJo is no huge moneymaker for me either, but it's no Q9o.

Entity · #7 05-14-2005, 01:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #1 - Generally I don't play AJo until the middle positions. Its not the most robust of hands to play pre-flop that early.

Hand #2 - Pre-flop I won't raise anything smaller than AQs against a field. If it was just the button limping in then I wouldn't hesitate to raise AJo here, but in this scenario you should limp. Played ok otherwise, you got owned I assume?

Hand #3 - Again... bad pre-flop raise. The turn is 50/50 check or bet for me, both actions work fine. Otherwise average hand.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

TT,

When did you turn into such a preflop nit (no offense meant, fwiw)? Preflop is fine 8-handed at $2/4 in #1 and #3. I wouldn't raise #2 all the time, but it's a raise I'll still make occasionally. None of these raises are bad, though.

Have you been playing in games recently where the players are generally tighter? I'm actually stunned that you'd fold AJo UTG 8-handed (I'm raising it ten-handed, though I don't think limping it is terrible -- and I'm certainly not folding it).

Rob

MisterKing · #8 05-14-2005, 01:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You can check the turn in hand 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes... field is too large, bet will not fold them out and you are likely drawing to either 3 or 6 outs vs some kind of pair.

Hand 1 is fine, and I wonder if check-call is better on hand 2... I know its weak-tight but that river card is mucho bad news for hero's hand. Bet call seems fine, but for the sake of raising alternatives this one spot where you might have had options. I also agree with TT that raising PF here is awful. My cutoff is AQo, but I may be playing much looser games than TT, I dunno. AJ is not a good hand to raise here.

Luv2DriveTT · #9 05-14-2005, 02:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]

TT,

When did you turn into such a preflop nit (no offense meant, fwiw)? Preflop is fine 8-handed at $2/4 in #1 and #3. I wouldn't raise #2 all the time, but it's a raise I'll still make occasionally. None of these raises are bad, though.

Have you been playing in games recently where the players are generally tighter? I'm actually stunned that you'd fold AJo UTG 8-handed (I'm raising it ten-handed, though I don't think limping it is terrible -- and I'm certainly not folding it).

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew I'd get a response like that! I'm glad it was from you Rob!

The truth is I limp on some tables with AJo, occasionally I'll raise if I am playing against a table with good thinking players, and occasionally I'll fold (not often however... its a rare occasion, depends on the table but I haven't felt I needed to do this in a long time). SSHE doesn't recommend this hand be played at all from early positions when the players average 3-5 to the flop. HPAF (which I am re-reading again and again this month, many amazing gems in there I have overlooked outside of this forum) classifies AJo as a group 4 hand, which is playable in a loose table, but not worth a raise.

From HPFAP: "as the game gets more aggressive, you should
discard some of the weaker Group 4 hands such as AJ and KTs.
These can be difficult hands to play out of position, especially if you find yourself isolated by an aggressive player."

As for #2... think to yourself, what is the point of the raise? Is it a raise for value? Is it a raise to dominate position? To clean up the field? I agree occasionally (again depending on the players, the texture of the table, and so on) its a reasonable raise, but the majority of the time its un-required.

Your point about the 8 handed table was valid I should add... I didn't notice that when providing my original analysis. But against a 10 handed table I think my advise stands strong.

I'm not such a nit after all eh? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Luv2DriveTT · #10 05-14-2005, 03:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My cutoff is AQo, but I may be playing much looser games than TT, I dunno. AJ is not a good hand to raise here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. I slapped in a "s" after the AQ by accident. I post fast and furious, little details get missed at times. Thanks for pointing that out.

TT