I played this wrong on at least one street

thesharpie · #1 05-12-2005, 06:41 AM

MP2 was 45/20 over a few hands. He once raised JTs in LP against a couple limpers. He is aggro postflop also. Assume the others are LPPs, both over 50% VP$IP. I think the turn raise was silly even though I could have a better hand than MP2, I wasn't even thinking about the others being LPP at the time. It would suck to get 3 bet also. Would this play have some merit against decent opponents? It looks like I have slowplayed trips to me.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (14.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB

imported_leader · #2 05-12-2005, 06:43 AM

Just call the turn.

thesharpie · #3 05-12-2005, 06:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Just call the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you read the whole text before posting 1 word or 1 line obvious replies? I already said I should've called the turn under these conditions, I was more looking for responses on other streets or whether the turn play is worth it against thinking opponents..

tomtemor · #4 05-12-2005, 07:16 AM

Is it really bad to raise JTs against a bunch of limpers when you're in late position? And am I weak for laying KQo down pre-flop facing a raise?

thesharpie · #5 05-12-2005, 07:23 AM

It's a good play, I like to make it when the conditions are right. It just shows you he's not someone who has to have a premium hand when he raises preflop. Alot of players who raise JTs are going to raise A8o plus marginal kings and such.

I usually fold this preflop but given the read I decided to 3 bet.

Nfinity · #6 05-12-2005, 07:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It's a good play, I like to make it when the conditions are right. It just shows you he's not someone who has to have a premium hand when he raises preflop. Alot of players who raise JTs are going to raise A8o plus marginal kings and such.

I usually fold this preflop but given the read I decided to 3 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love isolating maniac aggressors with hands like this, like you said, without the read it's an easy fold, but with the read, it's a solid play. It just sucks you got other callers.

DMBFan23 · #7 05-12-2005, 02:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is it really bad to raise JTs against a bunch of limpers when you're in late position? And am I weak for laying KQo down pre-flop facing a raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

JTs - no, though I dont do it every time.
KQo - yes you should lay this down to a raise before you unless the raise is an LP raise and you're on the button, or the raiser is a huge LAG and you can isolate

Nfinity · #8 05-12-2005, 07:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Just call the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should just call the turn as well, but I will be so kind as to elaborate.

In this situation (assuming what you told us to assume) any of the other players who were going to call 1 bet are going to call 2. It's my experience that LP-P have a hard time giving any merit to these paired flops, especially if one of them holds T. If one of them has made their flush, or was slowplaying an A themselves, well, like you said it would suck to get 3-bet.

Against decent opponents I think this play is even more costly. Any decent opponent who would fold to a 2-bet here, either folded the flop, or would fold to 1 bet as well. Your also runninga a better risk of getting 3-bet, we've already established the suckiness of that situation.

For the record, all other streets were fine, IMO.

deepsquat · #9 05-12-2005, 07:33 AM

I would just call the turn. You arent going to push anyone off a hand that they called the flop with and are very likely to be 3 bet by an ace or made flush. This play would be better against a smaller field imo, 1-2 others that arent so loose.

I would raise here for fold equity and it wont happen into this field.

ajrenni · #10 05-12-2005, 07:46 AM

I would fold this pre-flop. KQo is not such a great hand against a pre-flop raiser and 2 others. I can understand if you thought that the raise would get you the button and knock out the blinds and the limpers, but what you are really risking is getting involved in a situation where you are dominated and/or your top pair hand is super-vulnerable because of the big pot. In this particular hand, you were the one with the draw, so it worked out for you, but you are more likely to flop top or middle pair than a gutshot and backdoor flush draw.

For me, the turn raise is problematic mostly because you want to keep people in the hand. Unless someone has a full house or K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], a spade wins it for you, and a Jack has a good chance of taking down the pot as well. Let the limpers overcall.