AKo, turn decision w/4 flop calls + drawy board

zephed56 · #1 05-11-2005, 07:14 AM

CO is loose (50% vpip), aggressive preflop (16% pfr), and aggressive postflop.

SB is loose passive.

BB is a good TAG.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero ?

Is this an incredibly easy check? Do you showdown UI? Call a turn bet, fold river UI?

Or should I bet with likely ~10 outs, discounted a lil for flush and overcards being reverse dominated/A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] out?

There are a ton of draws out there.

helpmeout · #2 05-11-2005, 07:30 AM

Your odds of having the best hand on the flop is 0%.
Your odds of winning the pot on the flop with a bet is 0%.

Is your hand worth a call? yeah since you have a backdoor diamond draw and 2 overcards in a raised pot.

On the turn you have the second nut 1 card flushdraw and 2 overcards. I dont see your hand being best. I call a turn bet. (If you hadnt bet the flop and it was checked around you could bet the turn).

I'd fold the river unimproved against this many opponents.

zephed56 · #3 05-11-2005, 08:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Your odds of having the best hand on the flop is 0%.
Your odds of winning the pot on the flop with a bet is 0%.

Is your hand worth a call? yeah since you have a backdoor diamond draw and 2 overcards in a raised pot.

On the turn you have the second nut 1 card flushdraw and 2 overcards. I dont see your hand being best. I call a turn bet. (If you hadnt bet the flop and it was checked around you could bet the turn).

I'd fold the river unimproved against this many opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]
My hand COULD be best, although it's slim. And you don't not bet because there's zero chance to win it on the flop.

So I take that as a NO on semi-bluffing the turn?

helpmeout · #4 05-11-2005, 08:42 AM

You arent betting the flop for value, if thats what you mean?

You check the flop because you have nothing on a draw heavy board against 3 opponents. Nearly everyone can find a reason to call whether it be a pair, a gutshot, flushdraw, overcards, OESD.

On the turn who do you think is folding to a semibluff? the guy with a 7? a guy with JT? someone with a Jd or higher diamond? someone with an 8 or a 9?

If you checked the flop and it was checked to you on the turn then its a different story because your opponents are much more likely to have very little (the pot would also be smaller).

Having bet the flop the pot is that much bigger, you have no idea what your opponents have, there is a risk of being checkraised.

You also have a fairly decent draw, if you catch an Ace or king on the river you are more likely to get a call than if you had bet the turn. Someone with a low pair might think you are trying to steal on the end.

Same with if you hit a diamond someone who would normally fold a low diamond or a pair will probably make a crying call on the end as its only one bet.

krishanleong · #5 05-11-2005, 08:43 AM

I check this everytime. Getting checkraised on the turn with 25% equity sucks.

Krishan

zephed56 · #6 05-11-2005, 12:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You arent betting the flop for value, if thats what you mean?

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I know that. I think it'd help to try and thin the field though. And it will probably allow me to take a free card on the turn, FWIW I took the free card on the turn that was given to me.

[ QUOTE ]
You check the flop because you have nothing on a draw heavy board against 3 opponents. Nearly everyone can find a reason to call whether it be a pair, a gutshot, flushdraw, overcards, OESD.

On the turn who do you think is folding to a semibluff? the guy with a 7? a guy with JT? someone with a Jd or higher diamond? someone with an 8 or a 9?

If you checked the flop and it was checked to you on the turn then its a different story because your opponents are much more likely to have very little (the pot would also be smaller).

Having bet the flop the pot is that much bigger, you have no idea what your opponents have, there is a risk of being checkraised.

You also have a fairly decent draw, if you catch an Ace or king on the river you are more likely to get a call than if you had bet the turn. Someone with a low pair might think you are trying to steal on the end.

Same with if you hit a diamond someone who would normally fold a low diamond or a pair will probably make a crying call on the end as its only one bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
I prefer spending 1sb to be able to see a cheaper showdown/river card. If I check the flop, someone might bet and I'd have to make a tough decision on the turn. In this case it would have been an easy call, but if it were of a different suit, it would have been difficult.

Are you suggesting then that I just take a free turn card in instances similar to this? I'll try to use that in the heat of the moment.