Value betting standards (a TT hand at 1/2 6-max)

cmwck · #1 05-09-2005, 02:03 AM

I tried posting this in HUSH, and got one four word response. That forum seems to be for 5/10 and up..

1$/2$ 6-max Crypto

Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB is an 80/7/x (where x is < 1.0) calling station. His default play is to call to the river. When he gets to the river, he sometimes folds, but calls often. I'm unsure of his river calling standards, but I have seen him call with top to middle pair mostly, and once or twice he called with nothing or some pair less than middle pair.

Preflop: Hero raises, everyone folds, BB calls.

Flop (2 players, 4.5 SB): [Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn (2 players, 3.25 BB): [J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River (2 palyers, 5.25 BB): [2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]
BB checks, Hero....??

Is this a clear value bet with 4th pair, or is it debatable, or should I just check behind?

Am I missing out on a lot if I'm not value betting in spots like this where I have third or fourth pair?

milesdyson · #2 05-09-2005, 02:07 AM

I'd probably check behind on the turn and fold to a river bet unless I hit my gutshot. I also don't mind betting the turn, as long as you plan on taking a free showdown.

cmwck · #3 05-09-2005, 02:39 AM

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I'd probably check behind on the turn and fold to a river bet unless I hit my gutshot. I also don't mind betting the turn, as long as you plan on taking a free showdown.

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Do you bet on the turn or river if the turn was the 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] instead of the J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]?

milesdyson · #4 05-09-2005, 02:52 AM

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I'd probably check behind on the turn and fold to a river bet unless I hit my gutshot. I also don't mind betting the turn, as long as you plan on taking a free showdown.

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Do you bet on the turn or river if the turn was the 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] instead of the J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]?

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It makes it closer because the 9 doesn't complete a gutshot and it isn't an overcard to your pair, but I still wouldn't bet the river if he called my turn bet.

ArturiusX · #5 05-09-2005, 03:52 AM

I check, I think you see middle pair to often here.

@bsolute_luck · #6 05-09-2005, 08:17 AM

i agree with an earlier post, the flop bet, i consider, a semi-bluff, which didn't work on a mostly uncoordinated board. HU, i think a pair of some kind, so i'll check behind on the turn and fold to a river bet, unless you think he'll bluff at it, then i'd just call.

cmwck · #7 05-09-2005, 05:41 PM

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i agree with an earlier post, the flop bet, i consider, a semi-bluff, which didn't work on a mostly uncoordinated board. HU, i think a pair of some kind, so i'll check behind on the turn and fold to a river bet, unless you think he'll bluff at it, then i'd just call.

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I disagree. The flop bet might have some fold equity as a semi-bluff, but I am more than happy to be called by this guy on the flop and the turn. He would call to the river with over 90% of the hands he played, which means he was doing it with any two cards basically. Only at the river itself did he tighten his calling standards.

I'm staring to agree though that checking the river through is probably the right move.

SomethingClever · #8 05-09-2005, 06:08 PM

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Is this a clear value bet with 4th pair

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To answer your question precisely, it's anything but a *clear* value bet.

If the guy is a real tool, a huge donkey station, then I bet the river.

However, you're not ahead of many rational hands, and I don't think you're missing anything close to a full bet by checking behind.

tijean · #9 05-09-2005, 06:13 PM

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I have seen him call with top to middle pair mostly, and once or twice he called with nothing or some pair less than middle pair

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Given your read, there's a good chance he'll fold here if you're ahead, so you won't get the extra bet. And obviously, you don't want to pay an extra bet if you're behind. This board is scary enough for TT that checking this through looks best.

And I hate the idea of checking the turn and folding the river - that's a good way to fold the best hand here.

@bsolute_luck · #10 05-09-2005, 06:37 PM

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I have seen him call with top to middle pair mostly, and once or twice he called with nothing or some pair less than middle pair

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Given your read, there's a good chance he'll fold here if you're ahead, so you won't get the extra bet. And obviously, you don't want to pay an extra bet if you're behind. This board is scary enough for TT that checking this through looks best.

And I hate the idea of checking the turn and folding the river - that's a good way to fold the best hand here.

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hmmm, 3 overcards and a flush on the river....i wonder what he's calling down with? and what hands we beat at this point? i noted in my previous post that if you think he'd bluff the river to call, but i just don't see our hand being good against someone based on reads.