Gutshot and Throw away Pocket Kings hands

sudic · #1 05-08-2005, 10:32 PM

Hi Guys!

Was I correct to continue to play for the Gutshot in this first hand?

If I didn't have the correct odds, I had to be close enough to contiune to play.

Right?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 raises, 2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets, CO raises, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG folds, MP1 folds.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB folds.

River: (10.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

In this second hand was there a spot to throw away the pocket Kings earlier?

There were tons of calling stations in this game and I knew they weren't going to fold.

I was just hoping an Ace didn't show on the Turn and then I was going to get more aggressive.

I had already been cracked with pocket Kings earlier.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, SB calls, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (12.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, MP1 bets, MP2 raises, Hero folds, SB calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

Thanks!

shark6 · #2 05-08-2005, 10:57 PM

Hand 1: With implied odds, you can peal on off against the flop raise.

But when you hit, go for the checkraise and try to trap SB for more bets.

Brunger · #3 05-08-2005, 11:07 PM

I think you need to fold in hand one getting 6.5-1 given the fact that it puts a 4str8 on the board and your overcard is very tainted.

You need to raise flop in hand two. Pot is not that big to be waiting for the turn and you need to charge draws and put money in the pot with your excellent hand. Plus if he has a flush or str8 draw he may check to you on the turn anyway.

shark6 · #4 05-09-2005, 12:35 PM

Hand 1: Calling the flop bet is actually 7.5-1 immediate, plus when the original better just calls the raise or any of the other players calls 2 cold you get even better odds than 7.5-1. Plus, you also have a draw to runner-runner KQ straight and a J overcard and an easy checkraise opportunity if you hit the gutshot. I add all that together and say peal one off on the flop.

mute · #5 05-09-2005, 01:46 PM

In hand 1 you are getting 8:1 on your call and you need about 11:1 to make a call profitable. I don't think you can close that gap with implied odds. Also consider, that you are not closing the action (MP1 might 3bet). Fold, and I don't think it's close.

In hand 2 you need to bet/3bet the flop. Make the good draws pay the maximum, and get the weaker ones to fold. Not being aggressive on the flop makes it difficult to play the turn, but I think calling is fine, since we can't really put anyone on an ace.

wrto4556 · #6 05-09-2005, 02:03 PM

Hand 1 is fine. You got some overcard outs and implied odds that make this an easy peel.

Hand 2 you really need to raise this flop 100% of the time.

meep_42 · #7 05-09-2005, 02:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In hand 1 you are getting 8:1 on your call and you need about 11:1 to make a call profitable. I don't think you can close that gap with implied odds. Also consider, that you are not closing the action (MP1 might 3bet). Fold, and I don't think it's close.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think he can get 2 bets on the turn/river? I think he can get 2 bets on the turn alone, not to mention his J may be good.

Hand 2 - you need to raise this flop every time.

-d

CanKid · #8 05-09-2005, 02:11 PM

Flop call is close in hand 1 when you aren't closing the action. With a diamond I'd call, it's not big deal tho. I think not check raising the turn is a big deal though, take advantage of your position to the raiser.

Octopus · #9 05-09-2005, 02:20 PM

Hand 1: The question is, did you have the implied odds to call the raise on the flop? After the fact, we can see that you did not. (You only won 9.5 BB on our 1BB investment.) On the other hand, if you had check-raised the turn, you probably could have gotten at least 1 BB more. In any case, I don't think it matters on the flop if you fold or call.

Hand 2: Raise the flop (both times you could have). This is a perfect hand protection/value raise.