$100+9 SnG problem

[Martin Aigner]

Party $100+9 SnG, hero is the chipleader with close to 2k. 8handed, blinds 50/100

UTG+1 and +2 muck
UTG+3 (stack before hand 850) calls
UTG+4 mucks
Hero (CO) calls 100 with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Button (stack before hand 1k) raises to 200.
Both blinds muck, UTG+3 and hero call.

Of course the call with 86s is questionable at least, but let´s just say that hero hit the wrong button while multitabling. The call of the second 100 was obviously a nobrainer. Hero doens´t know what the minumum raise means, he hasn´t seen button making this move before. Reads about both players: Nothing fancy, reasonable players.

Flop: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Pot: 750, stack sizes left from opponents: UTG+3 650, Button 800.

UTG+3 checks

What´s the move for hero here and why? A friend and I have had a big discussion about this, and I´d like to get as many respondes as possible to settle our disput.

Thanks in advance

Martin Aigner

[mcpherzen]

I'm on Candid Camera, right?

For the love of Pedro, feel free to:

(a) muck this preflop when the action's on you.
(b) muck this preflop once you've been raised after making a terrible call in the first place
or
(c) muck this on the flop since your hand is 8-high.

SNG's are really pretty simple. You don't need to go out of your way to make them hard.

--Z

[Martin Aigner]

[ QUOTE ]
(a) muck this preflop when the action's on you.


[/ QUOTE ]

As stated before, I don´t want to discuss the first call. It was a mistake

[ QUOTE ]
(b) muck this preflop once you've been raised after making a terrible call in the first place


[/ QUOTE ]

You must be kidding, right? I hope you don´t seriously consider mucking getting 6.5:1 when it costs you only about 5% of your stack without the possibility of getting raised.


[ QUOTE ]
(c) muck this on the flop since your hand is 8-high.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess it´s clear that 8 high won´t win the pot, but ever heard something about odds, bluffes, semibluffes... ? Not saying that a check/muck is wrong, I just can´t see why you say that hero´s hand is only 8high.

Martin Aigner

[curtains]

Normal strategy (ignoring prize structure and such) should be to move allin. If you check, your opponent may decide to put all his chips in with AKo or something, and then of course it's a disaster to check and call, although it's very close chip EV wise anyway (It's not close if he has AK as you are probably a favorite against this hand, but based on his range of hands that may include AK, I'm pretty sure it would be a call). Based on the size of the pot, it's unlikely your opponent makes a bet of 200-300 and then folds to a checkraise with only 500 chips left. Mainly it's imperative that you make the last signifigant bet/raise in this situation, and allin seems to be the best way to do that.

If your opponent had more chips, about 1300-1500 or so, then I like check raising in this scenario, yet check folding if they make a large pot committing overbet after you check.

All of the above is not taking into account any prize structure considerations of sit+go play. However I suspect against the button's range of hands, moving allin is the best play in a sit and go format, a multitable tournament or whatever.

[mcpherzen]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you don´t seriously consider mucking getting 6.5:1 when it costs you only about 5% of your stack without the possibility of getting raised.


[/ QUOTE ]

I see this argument made all the time, and it is wrong, wrong, wrong. When you call with 8-6s in a raised pot pre-flop, you have to ask yourself, "Assuming I'm going to get at least a little heat on the flop (it doeesn't always happen, of course, but it is a reasonable assumption, I think, in a raised pot), what kind of flop will I need to get so that I can correctly feel comfortable putting more money in the pot?" Are you going to like it if the board comes 8-high? Are you going to like it if the board comes 6-high? Personally, I'm only going to like it if I flop 2-pair, trips, quads, the flush, or the straight. I'm not going to do the math, but I'm reasonably certain 6.5-to-1 isn't doing it for me here when I'm hoping for only those boards.

Chip-leading a $109 with 2K chips down to 8 players is a beautiful thing. Respect it. Don't take chances with 8-6 garbage. All those chips buy you time; time your opponents don't have the luxury of because they don't have your stack. Sit back ad let them make mistakes with their smaller stack while you look for/wait for opportunities to push. Once you've doubled up in an SNG, screw bluffing and semi-bluffing. The end game there is about pushing correctly. No one has enough chips to really play poker.

[Elektrik]

Assuming the first call was a mistake, the second call, especially with your stack, is correct given the odds.

On that flop, there's a nice pot and you've got a decent draw, so I push. Obviously you do not want to check call all in, as you won't be employing any FE to give your push the equity to make it correct. The fact that you have 2000 chips and will not be crippled even if you are called and lose is significant, and makes the push even more correct.

[curtains]

Cmon man the guy is trying to present the hand from a postflop point of view, he specified in his original post. He understands that everyone will hate the preflop play, and just wants to talk about the postflop play.

I hate calling with 86s too, but I dont see the point of answering a question that the OP specifically asks to ignore. It was maybe a hand a friend of his played that perhaps demonstrates some important postflop play that he wants to talk about.

We could go on and on over whether or not he could call with 86s after misclicking and so on, but it's a waste of time and energy, because you are only going to misclick so often. (And we all know it wasnt a misclick anyway)

[shejk]

The other option here is checking and hoping to see the turn for free. I might do that if I think it's somewhat likely.

EDIT: Oh yeah, the pot was raised. Guess I've only played this kind of hand checking from the big blind [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Michael C.]

I would push the flop. If they don't have a pocket pair, they'll probably fold. If they do, then you need to hit your draw, which you're getting 2-1 on anyway, making it a fair price. Plus if someone should call you with something like AK, you'd have even more outs.

[stripsqueez]

so i misclicked pre-flop - damn - but stuff happens

so i can call a smallish raise pre-flop after my misclick - hmmm - i feel a bit ashamed about it but ok

so now i hit a good draw but otherwise have nada - i'm thinking my serious choices are to bluff aggresively or survive till the raffle

yawn - i choose survive till the raffle

stripsqueez - chickenhawk