AK limp, TPTK, scary turn facing a push

Phoenix1010 · #1 05-07-2005, 08:29 PM

Continuing the trend... at least you can argue about my decision not to raise PF.

10+1

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t723)
UTG+2 (t533)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t680)
Hero (t775)
CO (t760)
Button (t770)
SB (t1374)
BB (t785)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls t15, Hero calls t15, CO calls t15, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (t67.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP2 bets t15, Hero raises to t70, CO calls t70, BB folds, MP2 calls t55.

Turn: (t277.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets t180, MP2 folds, CO is all-in (t675), Hero? t495 to call.

Bigwig · #2 05-07-2005, 08:33 PM

I don't mind limping with AK early. However, that's from UTG. I don't like this limp, especially when the only previous limper was in MP, too!

Anyway, I think I'm slowing down on the turn. You got two callers on the flop. The chances of BOTH having a weaker A are pretty small. You may or may not be beat. But since you bet, and got raised all-in, I think most times you're facing a set, or an idiot with Q9. Let it go.

meff66 · #3 05-07-2005, 08:34 PM

...folds.

yeah, the limp pre-flop got you. but his limp + weak flop bet/calling your less-than-i-have-a-huge-A raise, sure sounds like a 9. his check on the turn makes it even a stronger case. if he did have a little A himself, it is more likely he'd throw out a few chips to just slow you down perhaps (or better yet, finding out where he stands).

unfortunate circumstance, but you're not to invested...gotta fold [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

mosdef · #4 05-07-2005, 08:54 PM

out of curiosity, why limp preflop? were you intentionally trying to keep the pot small for your anticipated flop bet?

i'm not sure i understand the point. if you're in the blinds or UTG, then a limp or small raise keeps the pot small which can be useful if you want to take control of the flop but not have to bet 200 to do it. but with mid or better position, i feel better with a raise. you'll get called by the weaker As at the 10+1s, and it makes pocket pairs pay for their shots at trips.

Phoenix1010 · #5 05-07-2005, 09:24 PM

I'm just experimenting with limping AK preflop from various positions. Since I was in MP, I could already see that a large portion of the table had folded, and I expected at least a fold or two behind me. I had no need to thin the field, because it was already thin. I figured I was just as likely to get paid off by a weaker ace or king by limping, and perhaps moreso because I was masking the strength of my hand. I'm sure I'm missing out a large amount of pot equity by limping, but with the blinds this small, that's not a big deal at all. In the early stages of a tournament keeping the pot small can be a big consideration. I'm not at all convinced that limping in that situation is a bad play, although I'm open to convincing.

-Phoenix

mosdef · #6 05-07-2005, 09:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In the early stages of a tournament keeping the pot small can be a big consideration.

-Phoenix

[/ QUOTE ]

i'll go along with this - i wanted to confirm with you that you agree with that. however, at the 10+1s, i think you can count on getting paid off by weaker A and K even if you raise preflop. there's usually at least 4 people in a race to see who can bust first. so i don't think limping AK in an attempt to trap weaker aces is a good idea. as i said before, you're making it easier for small pocket pairs to limp behind you profitably

Phoenix1010 · #7 05-07-2005, 09:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In the early stages of a tournament keeping the pot small can be a big consideration.

-Phoenix

[/ QUOTE ]

i'll go along with this - i wanted to confirm with you that you agree with that. however, at the 10+1s, i think you can count on getting paid off by weaker A and K even if you raise preflop. there's usually at least 4 people in a race to see who can bust first. so i don't think limping AK in an attempt to trap weaker aces is a good idea. as i said before, you're making it easier for small pocket pairs to limp behind you profitably

[/ QUOTE ]

I was not saying that I was limping as an attempt to trap a weaker ace, I was saying that limping wouldn't hurt my chances of trapping a weaker ace. My main consideration in limping was to keep the pot small. I don't want to enter that race to bust first by getting myself too involved with unpaired hands.

mosdef · #8 05-07-2005, 10:15 PM

i think we're on the same page. i'm not a big fan of building a pot out of position.

i think i would have raised this particular one though, since you position in actually pretty good.