Am I spewing here?

chopper77 · #1 05-06-2005, 05:27 PM

I've been doing allright at Party lately, but these last couple days I've felt a little bit off. Lots of busted draws and whiffed overcards. Commentary on this hand would be really helpful, I've been in a lot of situations like this lately.

Loose table (55% VPIP.)
SB is 50/21/3.00
MP1 is 70/3/0.4

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, SB 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (18 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, Button folds.

A scary board and there are lots of ways to beat me here. Looking at it again I'm thinking it would probably be better to raise this to buy the button, get some more information and maybe get a free card. This pot is huge and I'd rather not dump my hand just yet. I have maybe 4 outs, so calling isn't awful is it? Am I chasing? If I'm drawing dead I'm probably getting re-raised and I can get the hell out.

Turn: (11.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, SB calls, MP1 calls.

Now I don't know about this raise. Open ended straight draw gives me some more outs, maybe now I have about 9 or 10 outs, the pot is big so I'd rather be aggressive. Is this spewing?

River: (17.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero ????

I get checked to, it's a very big pot but I have nothing. I'm thinking I should probably bet here because passive MP1 is going to fold and SB will probably fold this 1 in 16 times if he's got nothing. Is this line of thinking correct?

Any feedback is very helpful. Time to go read the Playing Overcards section of SSHE again.

davelin · #2 05-06-2005, 05:31 PM

Don't raise the turn. Certainly don't bet that river.

AngelicPenguin · #3 05-06-2005, 05:32 PM

This hand seems backwards. If you're going to raise, it's probably best to raise the flop and buy a free turn card, rather than raise the turn when you have a small chance to improve. I might also cap PF thinking my equity and SBs are better than the other 4 players, so get them to keep putting money in. I probably cap PF, raise the flop, check/call the turn, and check/fold the river UI.

cold_cash · #4 05-06-2005, 05:35 PM

I don't like the turn raise. You just open up the action to the SB again, who seems capable of 3-betting with lots of hands, and all you have is a draw.

Against the regular crew I'm not betting the river. It's true that someone might fold Ace high, but the chance that someone actually HAS Ace high and will fold, compared to the chance that someone has 88, etc., and will call, makes me think this bet is a loser.

Wetdog · #5 05-06-2005, 05:35 PM

It is spewing a bit on the turn. You will only make 2 additional bets on your raise on a drawing hand. Nobody's going to run from one bet in a pot this big.

River, check. Nobody's going anywhere, least of all you.

chopper77 · #6 05-06-2005, 05:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise the turn. Certainly don't bet that river.

[/ QUOTE ]

So do you fold the turn?

Raise the flop?

In retrospect I wouldn't think the river bet would so awful. Basically betting $1 at 17.50:1 that they both fold. If I check through I lost 95% of the time. If I'm raised I fold because I can't win any showdowns.

gharp · #7 05-06-2005, 05:36 PM

pre-flop: don't have a problem with anything there

flop: Normally I'd think pretty hard about folding this b/c of the threat of being dominated by SB. But his 21% pfr makes me think peeling one off here is good. I definitely wouldn't raise the whole field.

turn: With one card to come, I think I just call here. I don't think you had the equity to raise. Given that you did...

river: I'd bet, for the logic you gave. Good chance MP1 is on a flush draw and SB has an unimproved A.

Overall, FWIW, I think I like everything but the turn raise...

chopper77 · #8 05-06-2005, 05:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This hand seems backwards. If you're going to raise, it's probably best to raise the flop and buy a free turn card, rather than raise the turn when you have a small chance to improve. I might also cap PF thinking my equity and SBs are better than the other 4 players, so get them to keep putting money in. I probably cap PF, raise the flop, check/call the turn, and check/fold the river UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

This line makes sense to me. Capping PF makes sense to me, and I wish I'd have raised the flop.

davelin · #9 05-06-2005, 05:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise the turn. Certainly don't bet that river.

[/ QUOTE ]

So do you fold the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a third option...

davelin · #10 05-06-2005, 05:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In retrospect I wouldn't think the river bet would so awful. Basically betting $1 at 17.50:1 that they both fold. If I check through I lost 95% of the time. If I'm raised I fold because I can't win any showdowns.

[/ QUOTE ]

I put the chance you get both to fold at about 1 in 50.