why didnt this bluff work?

[creedofhubris]

5/10 NL. Bunch of limpers, good room, I come into CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Bad player makes it $25 to go from the SB.
Six to the flop.

Flop: A76r

Checked to button, who is superaggro but decent. Button bets $150. Folded back to me, I think this is a steal. I have a pretty tight image. I minraise to $300. Button calls.

Turn: J

I move in for $600 more. Button instacalls with ace-deuce.

WTF?

[TrailofTears]

How about some reads on them, but more importantly how they see you?

If this was a rhetorical whine post, nevermind.

-T

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
How about some reads on them, but more importantly how they see you?

If this was a rhetorical whine post, nevermind.

-T

[/ QUOTE ]

You need reads besides button (only other player left in hand) is aggressive and likes to steal, and that the other players see me as tight? Which I mentioned in the post?

Not whining, just baffled at how button made the call.

FWIW, I sucked out a 5 on the river to drag the pot. But that is immaterial to the discussion. My bluffs are apparently transparent to all, and I'm wondering why.

[Rocaix]

Unless you normally play your two pair/set type hands this fast, this line seems like it's made to push someone off a hand.

Even if you do play two pair/set like this, the button probably doesn't know that and thinks there's no way you play a set/big Ace this way and probably put you on an up an' down straight draw.

Or maybe he's just a huge donkey, who knows.

[soah]

It's hard to believe that you would check a strong hand in the CO with six people to the flop. I'd say that your line looks more suspicious than his. Just because he is aggressive and betting from the button doesn't mean he can't have an ace... but your line doesn't make much sense for anything.

Plus, the fact that he called your raise on the flop should indicate that he's not on a complete steal here. The best you can hope for is that he's on a straight draw, but he'll show up with a made hand more often I think.

[Chaostracize]

I know this is somewhat different context, but I think the min-raise didn't work for the same reason the min-raise DID work in your KK-86 hand. Unless you show down a hand where you min-raise and have the goods, I wouldn't try bluffing an aggro off top pair.

However, his call was much more horrible than your min-raise/bluff was. I think, if you're going to bluff this pot, a check-call on the flop is a much better play since this pot is multiway. Not to draw heavy so you don't have to worry about other coming because now they're "getting odds" and I think it's cheaper than raising and reopening action if you do actually coming across a hand. I know think this is a lot more superior to check raising cause you're giving him less incentive to call your turn all in and it lookes more convincing that you flopped a big hand.

But, I'm probably wrong.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
It's hard to believe that you would check a strong hand in the CO with six people to the flop. I'd say that your line looks more suspicious than his. Just because he is aggressive and betting from the button doesn't mean he can't have an ace... but your line doesn't make much sense for anything.

Plus, the fact that he called your raise on the flop should indicate that he's not on a complete steal here. The best you can hope for is that he's on a straight draw, but he'll show up with a made hand more often I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

You make a lot of good points. After further reflection I think I don't mind my flop check/min-raise so much, because my hand might be good; if so I need to protect it.

But checking turn once he calls and says, no, you cannot blast me off this hand, seems far superior to the move I made.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]

However, his call was much more horrible than your min-raise/bluff was. I think, if you're going to bluff this pot, a check-call on the flop is a much better play since this pot is multiway.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not multiway. I am last to act after his bet, and there is no one else left in the pot.

I am cutoff, he is button, it is checked to me, I check, he bets, everyone else folds, action is on me, I min-raise...

[AJo Go All In]

i don't think you can very credibly represent a big hand here. would you really check a big hand in a raised pot, 2nd to last to act, after the preflop raiser has already checked?

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think you can very credibly represent a big hand here. would you really check a big hand in a raised pot, 2nd to last to act, after the preflop raiser has already checked?

[/ QUOTE ]

yup. no way anyone believes you are going to depend on the button to bet so that you can checkraise.

only way this works is if he was the original raiser.