Flop set, two flush draws and possible straight

pergesu · #1 05-05-2005, 08:20 AM

Anyone not pushing here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed) converter

SB (t2420)
BB (t895)
UTG (t775)
MP1 (t1490)
MP2 (t750)
Hero (t750)
Button (t920)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP2 calls t30, Hero calls t30, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t120) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets t80, SB calls t80, BB folds, MP2 folds.

Turn: (t280) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t120, SB raises to t240

Maulik · #2 05-05-2005, 08:27 AM

I like the flop bet of t80 into a pot of t120. I'd like to know why you slowed down on the turn?

t120 into a t280 pot? I'd be betting around t190.

pergesu · #3 05-05-2005, 08:45 AM

Honestly, I think it was just automatic. 120 is the amount I generally raise to in level 2, so it's a comfortable keystroke for me. I'm dead serious too...my fingers did the work before I thought it through, really. One of the downsides to multi-tabling, I suppose.

Maulik · #4 05-05-2005, 08:51 AM

I'm curious to know what others think of betting roughly 40+% into a pot on the turn with the texture of this flop

pergesu · #5 05-05-2005, 09:47 AM

fwiw, I agree with you, I should have bet bigger on the turn. Would be nice to get some more input though

theordinaryboy · #6 05-05-2005, 01:52 PM

Ok so what did you put sb on?

THe info we have is:

a check/call on the flop
a min-raise on the turn to a weak turn bet with a potential made straight (10,9/5,4)
he is the small blind and so his hand range could be a lot wider than normal him having only to put in half a bet
and he is also a big stack.

So what does this tell us, if we presume he isnt an idiot then the check/call flop should be

1. a strong hand either 2 pair or sevens (queens are doubtful as should have raised pre-flop)

2. a flush draw/straight draw we would hope that he would fold 54 but 10,9 is not out of the question

3. he could have a pair of queens with a weak kicker

So then the turn comes

making there 2 flush draws, because of this you want to charge him high i would bet 3/4 of the pot here.

Now you bet small and he min-raises, he could just be testing you and have nothing but we dont know this because of your small bet on the turn. If he min-raise a 3/4 bet then he must believe that he has really got a hand.

So what is it i think the most likely answer is 2 pair q8, q7 or 87.

these are nice small blind hands especially the later. However, we also have to figure for him making his straight. The min-raise could be him wanting to keep you in the hand because he doesnt want you to fold, however this is risky as you might have a flush draw.

Anyway in conclusion i think you have to re-raise on the turn probably push.

If he hits his flush or has made a straight then sobeit really i think the majority of the time he will have 2 pair or worse. Even if he has got that straight or hits the flush then you still have 10 outs on the river.

I find that it should take a really scary board for you to fold your set.

My thoughts anyway, feel free to slate me.

xPuns1her · #7 05-05-2005, 01:53 PM

I was always taught that anytime I had a set and all my chips wernt in the pot then I played it wrong.

KramerTM · #8 05-05-2005, 02:07 PM

I might get a lot of flack for this... but is CALLING terrible here? From my experience, min-check-raising means a made hand. It's a value bet. He has no intention of making you fold here, otherwise he would have raised more.

So if you can put him on a made straight with a possible redraw to a flush (I personally put him on 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]), then you need to pair the board to win. It's 3.6:1 against you filling up or hitting quads here and the pot is laying you 5.3:1. Not to mention, leaving yourself with 400 chips here by checking/folding the river in level 2 is still plenty to make a comeback.

I know in general calling is a bad move, but if you can put the guy on a hand that beats you here, might it be correct?

snap · #9 05-05-2005, 02:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I might get a lot of flack for this... but is CALLING terrible here? From my experience, min-check-raising means a made hand. It's a value bet. He has no intention of making you fold here, otherwise he would have raised more.

So if you can put him on a made straight with a possible redraw to a flush (I personally put him on 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]), then you need to pair the board to win. It's 3.6:1 against you filling up or hitting quads here and the pot is laying you 5.3:1. Not to mention, leaving yourself with 400 chips here by checking/folding the river in level 2 is still plenty to make a comeback.

I know in general calling is a bad move, but if you can put the guy on a hand that beats you here, might it be correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like where you're going with this, if you can confidently put him on a made hand it becomes a check/fold situation. I also strongly agree that the turn bet has to be much bigger.

kyro · #10 05-05-2005, 02:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I might get a lot of flack for this... but is CALLING terrible here? From my experience, min-check-raising means a made hand. It's a value bet. He has no intention of making you fold here, otherwise he would have raised more.

So if you can put him on a made straight with a possible redraw to a flush (I personally put him on 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]), then you need to pair the board to win. It's 3.6:1 against you filling up or hitting quads here and the pot is laying you 5.3:1. Not to mention, leaving yourself with 400 chips here by checking/folding the river in level 2 is still plenty to make a comeback.

I know in general calling is a bad move, but if you can put the guy on a hand that beats you here, might it be correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to be damn sure he has the straight if you're going to call and let another club or heart fall.