Increasing my PFR

ckessel · #1 05-04-2005, 11:43 AM

I'm around 8 PFR and the sentiment seems to be this is too low and shooting for 12 PFR would be +EV. I play 3/6, well, I'm trying. I crush 2/4, but 3/6 owns me after 10k hands. That's part of why I'm trying to work on this.

A couple questions:
1) 12PFR is way beyond what SSH's starting hands would have you at. What specifically about SSH's preflop strategy do people consider too passive?

2) How do you decide what to add as a raise preflop? I hit up Pokerroom's EV chart by position, but raising say 9 PFR from UTG puts hands like A8s as raising hands. A8s seems way to weak to raise preflop from such an early position. If we raise 15 PFR from the button, the charts would say things as low as 98s or A5s are raising hands (I'm just ordering by +EV and going down until 15% of the hands are accounted for).

So, in short, if I use SSH as my base, where have people added more raising hands preflop?

toss · #2 05-04-2005, 11:45 AM

To increase your PFR, you need to start opening more hands from MP1 on. This means like openraising from MP1 with A8s or opening JT from MP2 or stuff like that.

27offsooot · #3 05-04-2005, 11:48 AM

Most of the additional raises come from isolation raises in LP against crappy/ weak opponents with marginal hands (K4s, J10o, stuff like that for me at least). Also in blind defense, three betting will help u boost it up. Typically i three bet any pp out of the blinds when it's a steal.

QTip · #4 05-04-2005, 11:48 AM

It's not about adding a specific hand to a raising range. My PFR % has gone up because of several things.

1. Getting more active in blind stealing.

2. Recognizing opportunities to isolate poor players.

3. Recognizing loose raisers and 3 betting to get HU with them with good hands.

To say "Add this hand or that hand" is to really not understand the non self-weighing strategy of starting cards.

ckessel · #5 05-04-2005, 12:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Most of the additional raises come from isolation raises in LP against crappy/ weak opponents with marginal hands (K4s, J10o, stuff like that for me at least). Also in blind defense, three betting will help u boost it up. Typically i three bet any pp out of the blinds when it's a steal.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes sense (and QTip said similar things about it being situational).

I've been open raising more and isolating, but I find I'm lost now after the flop. Taking one of those hands as an example. You 2-bet to isolate, and end up 3 to the flop as the BB calls.

The flop misses you and all you've got is a K overcard. Now what? This seems to be the most common scenario by far and at this point if anyone bets or calls my bet, I almost certainly have the worst hand.

Even if the flop hits me, I either have bottom pair (the 4) or top pair with no kicker. Top pair isn't so bad, but it's tough to know what to do when you've flopped bottom pair even against a weak player.

Any books that talk about this? Every book on my shelf essentially is "play good cards aggressively". Increasing PFR seems to be "play average cards extremely agressive against weak opponents", and the literature on that strategy is slim [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

toss · #6 05-04-2005, 12:26 PM

When you 3-bet someone, you should feel that theres a reasonable chance that you'll be able to force them off their holdings on the turn if not the flop.

27offsooot · #7 05-04-2005, 12:34 PM

You're underestimating the quality of king high... I pretty much always bet the flop 3-handed and bet the turn if it's two handed on the turn and the villain sucks. I then check through on the river for the most part. You have to be willing to fire barells on both the flop and the turn for iso raises to work. Alot of the raises just come from having good position on maniacs/ LP players and three betting the maniacs and punishing the LP players. My opening requirements in EP are pretty standard i think 99+ (although 88,77 at really tight tables), AJo+, A10s (A9s occassionally), KQo, KJs, but i've managed to get my PFR close to 12 % through a lot of LP raises and blind situation 3-bets.

ckessel · #8 05-04-2005, 12:47 PM

Ok, cool, this is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for. Thanks!

Let's take another what-if scenario, 3/6 party table.

I'm in MP1, a typical 45/15 raises UTG, folded to me. What range of hands do I 3-bet with? The top 15%? (since he's PFR 15) I wouldn't think I'd want to raise with a hand that's likely inferior, would I? Or is the value of isolating worth raising with a hand worse than the likely holdings of the 45/15?

27offsooot · #9 05-04-2005, 12:50 PM

If the 15 is over a solid sample size and he's a donk and unaware of position, I'm three betting 88+, KQo+, AJo+. I tend to keep it light against EP raisers even if he is pretty aggressive, but an LP raise from this dude and i'm three-betting a lot more.

stillbr · #10 05-04-2005, 01:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I crush 2/4, but 3/6 owns me after 10k hands. That's part of why I'm trying to work on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

at 3/6-- position, your opponents, and how many people already in, ect... become very very important. You can beat 2/4 without doing much thinking. There is much more to raising than what cards you have and in what position you have them. Think about this.