Going from 5/10 & 10/20 6max back to ring-HELP!

[captZEEbo1]

I've been winning fairly well at 5/10 and 10/20 6max. Recently when I went back to ring games, I can't play them anymore. When I played at the $4/8 game at Bellagio I got crushed, even though I could see EVERYONE at the table making LOTS of huge mistakes.

Can someone give me some basic tips, or point me in the direction of some basic tips of going back to ring games?

Thanks,
Greg

[Bob T.]

EP, in ring games is much earlier than anything you experience in shorthanded games. Other than that, everything should be pretty similar.

[jayrutz2]

Funny, I was getting smoked recently a 5/10 5 max at Pokerroom(probably variance, but the swings were a bit much for my stomach) and went back to 5/10 full at party as well as 6/12 B&M and have been winning consistently. This got me to thinking about this, here are my conclusions.

IMHO here are the differnces: SH=5/6 seated, FR = Full ring

1) SH awards pre-flop aggression more, regardless of position, where FR position impacts outcome much more. Many more pots are swept with a single SB post flop in SH games, this can be very profitable.

2) Blind stealing can be from anywhere in SH, where in FR either cut-off, button and UTG(yes, UTG) are the 3 most effective steal spots, stealing from anywhere else is rare.

3) SH you are more likely to get 3-bet before the flop

4) FR requires more hand protecting post flop, as you will have more draws playing against you. SH betting pot building when ahead is key.

5) Table dependent for sure, but in general, more flop bluff raises in SH.

6)Again table dependent, and bad lags are everywhere, but more willing to fire bluffs at turn and river, even bluff raises and re-raises in SH than in FR

Therefore, here is my general thoughts on changing your game when going from SH to FR (read independent which clearly impacts these thoughts in a specific game.)
Pre-flop:

1) Tighten up pre-flop raising standards, especially from EP and MP.

2) LP, Fold and limp more pre-flop vs raising. Hands like K9o or K9s, K10, J8s, J9s J10o,Q10o, Axs, and Kxs which I would usually raise in an unraised pot SH, I will usually fold or sometimes limp in FR, but usually only in LP. Essentially, play drawing hand for as cheap as possible pre-flop. (exception, stealing, where I love raising these hands cuz I can get away much easier in a FR game.)

Post Flop:

3) raise more on flop with marginal made hands that don't look to improve. For example, you hold KJ on AJx board on button, 2 checks to C/u who raises. I would reraise here, looking to 1) fold Qs in checkers, and see what C/u does. In SH, I would call and wait for the turn. If the same pattern happens on the turn I would raise and fold to a 3bet from cut-off.

4)Call down top pair much more often on turn and river vs re-raising. Usually in F/R aggression on turn means a made hand, I play TP much more conservatively if bet into in FR, where in SH, I will ALWAYS reraise TP, as players who catch little pairs think, or at least act like they are ahead. In other words, I "believe" FR bets much more than SH bets on turn and river.

5) In the same vain, it takes much less to fold my underpairs in FR than SH, same logic as above.

6) Slow play a bit more in FR. I never(always exceptions) slowplay SH. I rarely Slow play FR.

7) Play more draws FR (really i am mathematical on draws postflop, but in general, postflop, draws are getting better odds and can more often get seen for 1 bet, exception, ram and jam OESD and flush draw opptys.)

That's my take on this. Overall, I think that moving back to FR means taking the aggression factor down pre-flop and s and valuing hands differently post flop.

I'd lover to hear other's comments here.

Ken

[Bluffoon]

When I am playing alot of shorthanded games and I sit down in a full ring game I find myself playing and raising too many marginal hands and playing them too aggressively after the flop. I also find that I do not give full ring players enough credit for a hand.

What I try to do now is to play both types of games on a regular basis so I don't get too set in my ways and make it easier to naturally adjust and jump from one type of game to the next without having to put too much thought or effort into it.