JJ with KK on board... Best Line?

LinusKS · #1 05-03-2005, 02:13 PM

MP3 is a gambler, and MP1 looks to be a gambler too, but too few hands to say for sure (about one orbit's worth).

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP3 calls, BB folds, Hero ...?

27offsooot · #2 05-03-2005, 02:23 PM

Why is c/ring the turn provided the flop ccer doesn't pop it my gut instinct. This seems so very, very wrong.

mtdoak · #3 05-03-2005, 02:48 PM

I call and lead the turn (any non club turn, that is)....and seriously think about mucking to another raise. That being said, not many average SSH players will raise to the turn with trip kings, so I'd be wary of MP3 cold calling two bets, even if he is a donk.

27offsooot · #4 05-03-2005, 03:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I call and lead the turn (any non club turn, that is)....and seriously think about mucking to another raise. That being said, not many average SSH players will raise to the turn with trip kings, so I'd be wary of MP3 cold calling two bets, even if he is a donk.

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Yeah, that's why I wanted to C/r... I really, really doubt the flop raiser has u beat, but i would be concerned by the cold-calling donk. If he doesn't raise the turn, u most likely have both donks beat and can charge them two on the turn when the ccing donk is on a draw and the flop raising donk has a 9 or a mid pp. I'm not really worrying about protection given the way that the flop played out. You also save yourself a bet when the ccing donk raises the turn. The disadvantages to this play are when the flop raiser checks and the MP bets or checks through. Still, with an overaggro raiser, i like a c/r on the turn.

PokerBob · #5 05-03-2005, 03:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
MP3 is a gambler, and MP1 looks to be a gambler too, but too few hands to say for sure (about one orbit's worth).

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP3 calls, BB folds, Hero ...?

[/ QUOTE ]

The typical donk line with a K here is to pop the turn, so I'd be more inlcined to give MP3 credit for a K. He is the real worry here IMO. That said, they both could be on draws.

You are in a tough spot out of position. I think I'd call the flop raise and ping a J on the turn.

PokerBob · #6 05-03-2005, 03:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why is c/ring the turn provided the flop ccer doesn't pop it my gut instinct. This seems so very, very wrong.

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Because I think it is very likely that the donk (MP3) with the K will smooth call the turn as well, for fear of driving you out of the pot. I think your hand has showdwon value, so I'm inclined to say call down. That feels really weak-tight, but OOP I don't see any good alternatives.

Yobz · #7 05-03-2005, 03:31 PM

The problem with just calling down is that you give people much better odds to draw out to beat you. I like a SnG here on a non-club turn, if there is a club on the turn then I would call down or fold to a bet/raise from mp1/mp3

sfer · #8 05-03-2005, 04:14 PM

3-bet and react accordingly.

LinusKS · #9 05-03-2005, 04:17 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP3 calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.16 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero...?

What are the odds neither of these guys has a K?

Is this weak-tight, or does someone see a fold here?

27offsooot · #10 05-03-2005, 04:20 PM

ri-haise... ALthough i recomended a c/r from the start.