Stud/Hi tourney: bubble question

[Hauser_III]

Multi-table tourney last night, approximately 450 people started, top 48 paid and I ended the 2nd hour (96 people left) with a whopping 400 chips. Absolutely nothing was going right. But I scratched and clawed, zipped and zagged and, with 56 people left, had about 1800 chips and was dealt (KK)8. I believe it's a 50 ante, 150 bring-in and 400/800 at this point. Seat 5 brings-in, it's folded to me in seat 1 and one of the tourney chip leaders, with approximately 32,000, was in seat 3. He's been bullying with his stack, as he should, and is virtually guaranteed to contest the pot if I enter. It's hand-for-hand, and there are 8 or 9 stacks shorter than mine at the 7 tables left. Do you (i) call, (ii) raise or (iii) fold and try to limp into the money?

Results in white:

<font color="white"> I raised, seat 2 folded, seat 3 bully re-raised with a 10 up, I capped, he called, the remainder of the money went in on 4th, he flipped split 10's, spiked the two pair on the river and beat my unimproved kings. Final pot was 4100+ </font>

I think my decision was absolutely correct, and would do it again in a heartbeat. I know that on the MTT forum, they'd all say to get the money in, that it's not worth it to hope and pray that you survive the bubble and then limp into the money with an extremely vulnerable short stack. In that forum, though, they're almost all playing no limit, and I want stud players perspective about limit play. I can't go all-in immediately with the 1800, but can only do it incrementally, and the increments virtually assure that a chip bully is getting the proper pot odds to chase with a hand like split 10's; in fact, he probably thought there was a good chance that I had split 8's and that he was in the lead on this hand. So what do you guys think?

[PoorLawyer]

I would probably raise it too. I don't think you are sitting comfortable enough to even try and sneak in from what it sounds like. Assuming your cards were live, I think you have too good of a hand to fold. This makes raising the best option to try and pick up the antes or at least make it heads up. Maybe if there was only 1 or 2 to be eliminated and there were 8 or 9 people behind me I would just fold this. People tighten up so much at this point that it will probably still be a number of hands until it gets whittled down to 48. I would rather have 3500 in chips to wait it out comfortably than eek in with nothing. I typically get very selective with my hands when I am in your shoes at this point but I think you have to do what you did...

[Bartholow]

Yeah, you made the right play, no doubt about it. You both know you are going to get it all in, and the fact that you are doing incrementally doesn't actually make it any better for him. It is well worth trying to do more than just make it into the money, so try to win a decent pot and move up some.

[mscags]

Tough break, but I think you have to make that play everyday of the week.

[Aicirt]

Dont play tournaments to get in the money. Play tournaments to get to the final table and win the whole thing.

That being said, you have to put your money in.

Aicirt

[Andy B]

Get your money in there. I hope you don't enter tournaments with the idea of trying to sneak into the money. There are basically only two reasons to enter tournaments:

1) To win them.

2) To make money.

Trying to sneak into 48th place so that you can get back your buy-in plus 10-20% or whatever accomplishes neither. Either build a stack to put yourself in position to make the final table or bust out so you can find a cash game to run over.

[Hauser_III]

No, I'm trying to win the whole thing, and I try not to let the approach of the bubble impact my play, other than trying to take advantage, when possible, of those people that tighten up near the bubble. That's one of the ways I nursed my 400 stack closer to 2000. Sneaking into the money is extremely cost-inefficient, as it's 3+ hours invested and barely returns the entry fee. The next time I play, if I've got a similar decision around the bubble time, the chips are going in again.

[jon_1van]

actually the MTT forum would tell you to ignore getting barely into the money and go for the real dough in the final few seats. That said, your action should be determined on what you think is your best shot at getting your money in the pot with a caller.

[RandomUser]

I would probably raise here as well, but there is a lot of validity to folding into the money and then start pushing your hands.

How quickly have people been dropping out?

If you have 1800 chips and the ante is only 50, you will still have plenty of chips once you reach the money.

btw, I don't buy the 'time invested' argument at all.

The hours you have spent up to this point are like the money you've put into the pot. THEY AREN"T YOURS ANYMORE.

[Andy B]

[ QUOTE ]
I would probably raise here as well, but there is a lot of validity to folding into the money and then start pushing your hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think there's a lot more validity to trying to accumulate some chips now so that you have a good chance to make a decent score.

I don't enter a tournament hoping to play for n hours so that I can get my money back. I like to believe that my time has value.