another under boat discussion

elitegimp · #1 05-01-2005, 03:19 PM

I was reading through this thread but I don't know how well it applies to my situation (3-way, not heads up), so I thought I'd ask you guys about it. Per usual, my thoughts are included and meant to be ridiculed.

Reads: I was sitting at a very aggressive table -- BB was extremely tight (I didn't see him play more than one or two hands). Button was fairly new to the table, and was limping/calling 2 cold about 60% of the time despite the fact that there was a ton of preflop raising (5 or more hands raised preflop per orbit). The little voice in the back of my head was telling me that this was not a good table for me to be playing on, yet I refused to get up.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
5 folds, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, Button calls.

^^^ I think this is standard... I was expecting BB to fold and Button to call so I was kinda surprised to see them both call.

Flop: (6 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, Button calls.

^^^ If Button wants a chance to hit his boat, he's gonna pay for it. Had I been paying attention, I would've wondered why is BB still in this hand... instead I just kept throwing money in the pot.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, Button raises, Hero calls, BB 3-bets, Button calls, Hero caps, BB calls, Button calls.

^^^ I'm not really sure what happened here. Nice little blank, I don't know why I went with the call-cap line. I think 3-betting is a better play here, although it looks like BB would've capped anyway.

River: (19.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Button calls, Hero calls.

^^^ This is what confused me the most. BB can't possibly have J5 or J2, can he? And JT is extremely unlikely given this board...

Final Pot: 25.50 BB

Questions:
* What should I have done on the turn?
* Was just calling the river raise okay?
* I think, given my reads, that it's possible to correctly put both of these players on hands. Care to guess?

Shillx · #2 05-01-2005, 05:08 PM

This is another one of those situations dude....

Don't bet the river unless you are willing to make it 3-bets!

If he has JT he is going to raise you, and he will just call with all other hands (other then AJ maybe). I would have check/raised this river and called a 3-bet or capped depending on what the 3rd player did.

Brad

Shalara · #3 05-01-2005, 05:29 PM

Interesting. I will give this a try. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Preflop standard.

Flop. Looks like BB has a jack to me. Likely so does button, though any pair is possible here. Looks good to me.

Turn. Interesting. From another seat, I imagine it looks like you bet out, raise made you realize your apparent overpair is no good so you called, then the cap, which says ha, I have a jack after all!

I'm not sure I like this too much here though, because I think you'll get plenty of action anyway. It looks like they both made something. That raise from a very tight player is pretty scary. AJ or JT? hmm...

River: I do this too. The raise on the river makes me think JT most of the time. Looks like I've got button beat though. I just call this raise. I am thinking button has underfull (22?) and BB has the feared JT.

KaiShin · #4 05-01-2005, 05:33 PM

3-bet the river. Neither one has JJ, and if BB has J2 or something, then so be it.

The turn call is interesting. I think I would have just 3-bet the turn myself. I'm not slowing down when there's at least one person donating here. I suppose you were trying to smoothcall then checkraise the river?

elitegimp · #5 05-01-2005, 06:03 PM

BB had AJ -- had I thought about my reads (aka BB was VERY tight), I probably would have realized this is the only hand he defends his blind with that he plays this aggressively.
Button had J9 -- the cold-call on the river screams "trips with a weak kicker"

I feel all results-oriented saying this, but the action on the river should tell me that I'm ahead (aka "I need to 3-bet"). My problem was that I didn't think of the implications of BB being so tight (in terms of what he could possibly hold) until I started writing this up -- I definitely need to think about these things during the hand as well.