Settle this discussion, please.

[Buckshot]

Boring or Interesting?

I was talking with a fellow 2+2er about this hand. Was it well played and boring or played poorly and interesting? Or was it something of both?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Flop: (11 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero folds, UTG folds, MP1 folds, CO calls.

~stephen

[Luke]

Looks fine to me. I can't really see playing it any other way.

With a player or 2 less on the flop, a bet/fold to a raise would be fine but given 4 opponents, your line is OK.

Edit: Oh, and not raising preflop would be pretty bad, IMO.

Luke

[JeffO]

There are 11 SB in the pot. If you bet,will you get all four opponents to fold more than once out of eleven. Bet the flop.

[Nate tha' Great]

I guess this is ... literally about the best flop that KQ spades can hope for in spite of missing utterly and completely. You should be able to pick up the pot (sometimes requiring a follow-thru on the turn) most of the times that nobody has an ace, diamond draw, or some other strong hand like a set. How often will that be? Not very often. But probably more often than 1 time in 12. And it's not like you have a decision to make if it's raised. So bet. What the hell. There, I've almost convinced myself.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
There are 11 SB in the pot. If you bet,will you get all four opponents to fold more than once out of eleven. Bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding? The chance of getting all to fold is close to zero. The chance of getting raised is much greater. You are basically making the argument to autobet any flop (with a scare card) when you raised from the blind which is pretty bad advice IMO.

Edit:
Damn, I hate typing a response and having Nate weigh in on the other side. Meh.

[rigoletto]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess this is ... literally about the best flop that KQ spades can hope for in spite of missing utterly and completely. You should be able to pick up the pot (sometimes requiring a follow-thru on the turn) most of the times that nobody has an ace, diamond draw, or some other strong hand like a set. How often will that be? Not very often. But probably more often than 1 time in 12. And it's not like you have a decision to make if it's raised. So bet. What the hell. There, I've almost convinced myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo! I like this response particularly because: "And it's not like you have a decision to make if it's raised."

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess this is ... literally about the best flop that KQ spades can hope for in spite of missing utterly and completely. You should be able to pick up the pot (sometimes requiring a follow-thru on the turn) most of the times that nobody has an ace, diamond draw, or some other strong hand like a set. How often will that be? Not very often. But probably more often than 1 time in 12. And it's not like you have a decision to make if it's raised. So bet. What the hell. There, I've almost convinced myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo! I like this response particularly because: "And it's not like you have a decision to make when it's raised."

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed your post. Sometimes I feel like I am watching/playing in a completely different game. This quote from Barry seems like the game I am seeing:

[ QUOTE ]
If you raise PF and it's all rags, they'll always put you on AK and raise the flop. If there's an A on the flop, they'll put you on a pair smaller than A's and raise the flop.

The good news with this is that you'll get paid off big with a monster, but it makes the so/so hands harder to play than in the more passive games at the lower limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

[stoxtrader]

leading or folding the flop is fine, neither can possible be a big mistake.

if there is 1-2 calling stations of the 4, or fish, then a flop fold outright is the play.

[ike]

I think this flop is close to an autobet. Limpers usually have bad hands, thats why you raised preflop, now bet out and watch all the random broadway cards and shitty pairs fold. Even if there are some total calling stations in the hand you should still lead this flop. If they call, bet the turn too. A very significant percentage of the time this flop doesn't give anyone any pairs and they're gonna be hard pressed to randomly play back at you with QT.

[FoodForThought]

I am not disagreeing, but how do you determine more than 1 in 12. Whenever I bet such a flop into that many players, it seems like 1 in 1000000000000000000 that they all fold.