Am I Misplaying KK preflop

Jibbs · #1 04-25-2005, 02:22 PM

I have had horrible luck with KK over the last month and I wondering about the line some of you take with KK preflop.

Here is how many of my tourneys have went bad lately. Its usually in the second hour and I have around 3000-5000 and the blinds are 50-100. I'll get dealt KK and make a raise to between 300-500. Villain will reraise from 600 to 1200 and I will re-reraise him all in. Inevitably I'm up against A-x, the villain hits his ace somewhere along the line, and I'm either crippled or out.

Looking back at my hand histories I see the last 23 times I have been in a race with KK I have won only 1 time, ironically enough it was the only time I was up against AA [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img].

But, also looking at these histories I see many times where I could have won these hands or got away from these hands had I not been all in pre-flop. A simple call pre-flop and a bet on a non-ace flop would have won many hands. A call and a fold to an Ace and agression from the villain would have saved me from losing more money.

On the other hand if I get all in pre-flop I will make more money when I win and I am normally a decent favorite to do so. And I would expect the bad streak to end and to start winning some of these races again at some point.

So which line do you most of you prefer, all-in preflop or wait and see what comes on the flop and re-evaluate from there?

DireWolf · #2 04-25-2005, 02:25 PM

If the villans will call all ins preflop thats what you want. Don't let them get away easy on the flop when the don't spike an ace. Sorry that you have lost 22/23 showdowns with KK. That sucks.

Jibbs · #3 04-25-2005, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry that you have lost 22/23 showdowns with KK. That sucks.

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There have been many loud profanities uttered and my neighbors in my apartment building kind of look at me funny [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] .

gp? · #4 04-25-2005, 02:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have had horrible luck with KK over the last month and I wondering about the line some of you take with KK preflop.

Here is how many of my tourneys have went bad lately. Its usually in the second hour and I have around 3000-5000 and the blinds are 50-100. I'll get dealt KK and make a raise to between 300-500. Villain will reraise from 600 to 1200 and I will re-reraise him all in. Inevitably I'm up against A-x, the villain hits his ace somewhere along the line, and I'm either crippled or out.

Looking back at my hand histories I see the last 23 times I have been in a race with KK I have won only 1 time, ironically enough it was the only time I was up against AA [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img].

But, also looking at these histories I see many times where I could have won these hands or got away from these hands had I not been all in pre-flop. A simple call pre-flop and a bet on a non-ace flop would have won many hands. A call and a fold to an Ace and agression from the villain would have saved me from losing more money.

On the other hand if I get all in pre-flop I will make more money when I win and I am normally a decent favorite to do so. And I would expect the bad streak to end and to start winning some of these races again at some point.

So which line do you most of you prefer, all-in preflop or wait and see what comes on the flop and re-evaluate from there?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you bet on a non-ace flop, he wouldn't call. You are playing it fine, you WANT to be allin vs Ax with KK. Don't let the bad run affect your play.

Jax_Grinder · #5 04-25-2005, 02:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So which line do you most of you prefer, all-in preflop or wait and see what comes on the flop and re-evaluate from there?

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, this depends entirely upon my relative stack size to the raiser/reraiser (more likely to just call and bet a ragged flop if I am covered - i go the other way when against a much shorter or much bigger stack). You just cannot worry that he MAY be holding an A which MAY hit. In most spots pray that you get all your money in preflop w/ KK and dance a little jig on your way to winning the pot.

On the other hand, I feel your pain. I once went on a run w/ AK (ring and tourney) where I lost 34 of 35 consecutive hands. Streaks can be brutal.

Jibbs · #6 04-25-2005, 02:39 PM

Thanks. It seems like usually I have the other guy covered and this hand just deflates me and I never recover.

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In most spots pray that you get all your money in preflop w/ KK and dance a little jig on your way to winning the pot.

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Tonite when this situation presents itself I will do my best Lord-of-the-dance impersonation. Who knows maybe it will help [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

hurlyburly · #7 04-25-2005, 03:06 PM

That's a really tough break, I'm in the middle of a 3 week swing where every QQ+ hand is costing me money, and every coinflip finds me on the wrong end.

What I notice looking back on my play is that I ignore a lot of opportunity waiting for the monsters (missing steal attempts, over- and/or under- bluffing, underbetting), then playing sink or swim everytime I get JJ+, AQs+.

It's never how I play ONE HAND that is the problem, it's the hands leading up to that hand that make KK or AA live-or-die situations.

That being said, take some time out and see if there are other holes that need filling that may make the times you get dealt monsters take on less importance.

Jibbs · #8 04-25-2005, 03:38 PM

Thats pretty good advice. I know as I start getting into a bad streak I become less willing to gamble and bluff because I "know" I'm going to lose. That usually just tightens up the death spiral in my game. In fact last night I had loosened up and was having a great second hour until the last of my KK incidents. I know I just have to grin and bear it and not be afraid gambling it up sometimes. But knowing it and doing it are different things. Thanks.

tiger7210 · #9 04-25-2005, 04:01 PM

I push everytime especially early in a tourny if I know villain will call. I want him to put all his chips in as a 3-1 dog everytime.

I went through a similar losing streak with KK's last year, maybe not as bad, but you have to remember to not be results oriented and know you made the correct decision to have your opponent call off all his chips as such a a big dog.

The cards will turn and you'll be happy you didn't let him get away cheap.

Jibbs · #10 04-25-2005, 06:45 PM

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Streaks can be brutal.

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Not all streaks are brutal. I just won a $5 MTT after getting pocket aces 6 times in the first hour. Thats a streak I can live with [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] . Not a brilliant display of poker by me I have to say, but I'll take some dumb luck after the last month of cards i've seen.