I don't know you tell me

Carmine · #1 04-25-2005, 11:36 AM

Villian is average party player. The only thing I know about him is he keeps trying to steal my blind with the same line and keeps losing, but keeps trying.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 6 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.16 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.16 BB

Bizot · #2 04-25-2005, 11:39 AM

Why are you 3 betting the flop and checking the turn through? As soon as you do that he is going to bet into you here without a doubt every single time.

Bet the turn and drop it like its hot to a check raise, same goes for river.

KDawgCometh · #3 04-25-2005, 11:59 AM

not sure I like the flop threebet that much, but he's giving you the greelight on that turn to bet at it, so you should take it. if you get CRed again teh the obvious thing to do is fold

Carmine · #4 04-25-2005, 12:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you 3 betting the flop and checking the turn through? As soon as you do that he is going to bet into you here without a doubt every single time.

Bet the turn and drop it like its hot to a check raise, same goes for river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I 3-bet because these yahoos always bet out with a weak Ace and they will fold to a 3-bet(if I have a strong ace or king here I would only call and then pop them on the turn or river). I also get to see two cards to try and improve. I do agree that once I check the turn if I don't improve I'm pretty much giving up. I feel I'm usually behind here so the 3-bet helps me fold with confidence. But thats why i posted

Tom Martell · #5 04-25-2005, 12:05 PM

You think they are folding a weak ace heads up here? Not in any party game I've seen...

Redeye · #6 04-25-2005, 12:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I 3-bet because these yahoos always bet out with a weak Ace and they will fold to a 3-bet

[/ QUOTE ]

This will never be true. If he has an ace, he's taking it to showdown 120% of the time.

[ QUOTE ]
I also get to see two cards to try and improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have two outs to improve if your behind. You shouldn't be raising for a free card in this spot because its just not going to make enough difference. Especially in a small pot.

If this guy is passive, its may be a fold on the flop. If he's at all agressive and might be doing this with a flush draw then you have to bet the turn and fold to a c/r. This is a tiny pot, there is no reason to go pissing away a bunch of chips into it.

Bizot · #7 04-25-2005, 12:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I 3-bet because these yahoos always bet out with a weak Ace and they will fold to a 3-bet(if I have a strong ace or king here I would only call and then pop them on the turn or river).

[/ QUOTE ]

They don't know that is how you'd play a strong A, also if they do have a weak Ace #1 they will not fold it, #2 you are drawing really really slim.

I call the raise on the flop and fold the turn unimproved, 2 over cards and agression scare me enough to get out + small pot size.

27offsooot · #8 04-25-2005, 12:19 PM

fold to the c/r. Next hand.

meep_42 · #9 04-25-2005, 12:24 PM

The question here lies in whether the 3-bet on the flop gains us enough to make it.

2 outs for the J's, 1.5 for the BD flush, .5 for the BD straight -- we'll assume all of them are winners and that you'll collect 1.5 BBs from villain when you do hit (sometimes on the turn, most times on the river, sometimes villain will fold to the raise)

4 outs give you about 16% chance of catching the winner by the river (5.25:1 against) (I'm assinging a very small chance of Hero holding the best hand at the moment), so you're investing .5 BB to win 4.66 + 1.5 BBs = 6.16BB. You're getting 12:1 on that money -- but you may be capped or bet into on the turn, in which case you need to fold immediately unless you catch a diamond. So, if the opponent doesn't cap and offers the free card a little more than half the time, the 3-bet has merit.

So, if the opponent is weak-passive, I can see occasionally changing up your game to incorporate the 3-bet, but i'd have called the flop raise and check/folded the turn.

-d

Carmine · #10 04-25-2005, 01:09 PM

Thanks for the imput guys. Let me ask this. Many are in agreement that a weak ace is not folding. What is going through villians mind when he bets into a UTG PF raiser with a weak Ace. I'm not saying thats what he had here but they do this quite often. What's their gameplan. If I have a 2+2 TAG in villians place that completed with A6s lets say. Will this 3-bet every push him off.