QQ against trips?

og5 · #1 04-25-2005, 02:16 AM

I think my first mistake was betting into a large field on this board, check/fold? Second mistake was calling the extremely straightforward button's raise, but if he was an unknown or a tricky player how should I play this?

Thanks

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, Button raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

GatorXP · #2 04-25-2005, 02:18 AM

With a Field that big its tough to bet into that. Any King plus a Flush Draw...and you've got 2 outs to them.

og5 · #3 04-25-2005, 02:20 AM

sorry the first part wasn't put in, edited above

Perseus · #4 04-25-2005, 02:24 AM

Read is really really important here and this hand sucks without one...

...against an unknown I call this down.

ErrantNight · #5 04-25-2005, 02:27 AM

betting into this field on the flop was correct.

nice hand.

next.

ErrantNight · #6 04-25-2005, 02:28 AM

the chance of their being a K out there is small. very, very small.

og5 · #7 04-25-2005, 02:40 AM

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the chance of their being a K out there is small. very, very small.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if this is correct as I've been beat with enough case cards to know they can always be out there. You don't think one of these 5 opponents has a king? How about the post flop play, calling down against possible trips or a flush (assume opponent is a tricky player)

I'm thinking bet/fold or check/fold the flop, fold the turn

ErrantNight · #8 04-25-2005, 02:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the chance of their being a K out there is small. very, very small.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if this is correct as I've been beat with enough case cards to know they can always be out there. You don't think one of these 5 opponents has a king? How about the post flop play, calling down against possible trips or a flush (assume opponent is a tricky player)

[/ QUOTE ]

Your response is a perfect example of TERRIBLE, results-oriented thinking. It's counter-productive to your growth and learning as a poker player. You shouldn't be thinking like that, let alone reiterating such nonsense.

I'm not trying to be mean AT ALL, I'm saying this strongly so that you understand how serious I am. Why should one of my five opponents have a K? Because it would suck if they did? Seriously. There's only 2 left. Based on your knowledge of the cards... the two cards your opponents are LEAST likely to hold are a Q or a K. You would be much more worried had there been a single overcard.

There is simply no way you should EVER think on this flop "one of my five opponents has a king." You should SPECIFICALLY think to yourself: "sweet, two overcards of the same kind fell, this makes it pretty likely that my underpair to the overpair is still good, and I should play this aggressively until someone gives me reason to doubt it."

If you play like there are monsters under the bed, you will play passively and weakly, which will make it easier for people to stay in for too long against you, making it more likely that your opponents will draw out on you, reinforcing your totally incorrect perception that everyone always holds the cards that beat you, causing you to play even more passively and weakly, and repeating this cycle.

Don't play like that.

Stu Pidasso · #9 04-25-2005, 03:09 AM

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I think my first mistake was betting into a large field on this board, check/fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting out on this flop is mandatory.

[ QUOTE ]
Second mistake was calling the extremely straightforward button's raise

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are virtually certain he has a King you can fold. If its possible for him to raise with a flush draw or smaller pocket pair then you gotta continue.

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but if he was an unknown or a tricky player how should I play this?

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Call the flop, and if no diamond comes bet out again on the turn.

Stu

LImitPlayer · #10 04-25-2005, 05:50 AM

Lead the Flop, 3 Bet the raiser.

Your line was terrible, in my opinion

Lots of players will raise you here with a pocket pair, a flush draw or a bluff they have position you don't.

If it is called down Lead the turn, IF you are caped on the flop, I would probably check fold this, It depends on my read on the button.