I think you guys are all wrong.

[spoohunter]

It occured to me the other day that I don't play at all like any of the players here. And I don't think you guys play optimally. Not to say you don't win, I think you guys do, probably lots, but I think you make a few key mistakes.

#1 - You play too tight in raised pots.

Here's an example from the other day. I'm in LP with 87o and a player who I hadn't not observed anything incredible from raised to 4x the BB. We both have 200x the BB, he has me covered. I had position on him, I called, so did one other player.

The flop came down K86, two hearts, and he bet the pot on the flop. I called again. Here's why : Villian either has TP or better, and will bet the turn, or he has less than top pair and check. When he checks the turn, I bet the pot and fold AQ, AJ, A10, but more than that, QQ, JJ, 10-10.

Much more importantly than that, if he does have AK, KQ, AA, then he's in trouble. Why? Because he puts in 16x the BB and is risking 100x the BB or more.

This is a very clear cut hand, and yet, not one in twenty of you would have played it this way. Not one in twenty of you would have played it.

The play, but almost all the players who play low limits, is so weak post flop, that it is fine to put your money in preflop with weaker hands. You are sacrificing money preflop, for larger profits post flop. Which leads to my second rule :

#2 - It's not that easy to flop a pair.

You may get the idea that I am a pay off machine. And I do make alot of speculative calls on the flop. I get into alot of marginal hands. But I don't do anything like "always call the flop with middle pair" or "always pay off two pair". The situation is very dependent on the board, the action in previous rounds, etc. Basic hand reading.

Now, when people limp in, I play alot tighter than when someone raises. That's because, as Doyle says, six people just tried to flop the nuts for free (or almost). So when I limp in LP with 67s, and the flop comes 972, I'm check folding. But the very same hand against a preflop raiser, and I'm calling. Calling for information, calling for two pair, calling to fold to a turn bet and bet a turn check.
Should I raise? The problem is, when I raise, I'm all of a sudden paying him when he has me beat, and folding out worst hands. Yes I get six outs to fold, but is that worth laying him a pot sized raise? Or worse, what if he calls? Now I've got a horrible hand in a bloated pot. So I'm calling, to improve, and to find out what he has.

#3 - Sometimes it's ok to slowplay. Honest. At a certain stage, it is important to get value out of your hand than it is to protect the pot. The worse your opponent is, the more this is true. The better they are, the LESS this is true. Doing alot more flop calling against auto betters also allows you to disguise your set or better hands for an extra bet, especially against observant opponents.

Am I a loose passive fish? Maybe I am... but I'm winning more than ever. Maybe I'm a small stakes passive aggression Tommy in training. Maybe this is another way to win.

[beset7]

Many posters here have variant styles preflop especially.

[DavidC]

I don't use position enough. Thanks for the hand example.

--Dave.

[Niwa]

I mix it up with plays like these.

[mason55]

You're talking about hands where you have 200BB. Most of the advice around here is fr 100BB and less stacks. They're tw COMPLETELY different games. Yes your strategy wrks well, making many speculative calls against fish wh will take hands too far. I don't think anyne will disagree with you. It's just the difference between shrt and medium stack poker and big stack poker.

If you're doing this with shrt stacks you might be giving away a lt f might. Don't knw how far you'd take hands with shorter stacks.

(Srry if this is hard t read, the 'o' key n my keybard is breaking/broken).

[CallYNotRaise06]

i agree this strategy does work, i use it all the time at these low limit games. its pretty much using position to your advantage. but what do you do when your up againt a guy who will fire 2 bullets w/o a hand.

[Los Feliz Slim]

Keep in mind that the hands that are posted tend to be the "problem" hands. I doubt many of the other posters, like myself, post the hands where we play perfectly. That's why we (or at least I) post the hands: to have others help us see where we screwed up so we can avoid doing it again. Otherwise, it's a lot of "nice plays". I don't need to be told when I play well, I need to be told when I play badly.

I write this not to defend the forum, which has helped my game drastically, but to say that your thoughts are valuable and should be contributed on a hand-to-hand basis.

[grimel]

or the person who's paying attention and check raises the turn.

or the FPS guy who lives for a check raise

or the maniac that raises every street with rags.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
i agree this strategy does work, i use it all the time at these low limit games. its pretty much using position to your advantage. but what do you do when your up againt a guy who will fire 2 bullets w/o a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

You quickly figure out who this guy is and play differently against him. New posters here seem to want a complete roadmap to play like a robot. If you want to maximize profits you can't do that. Everyone has a nice general strategy, but if you run into someone who's firing two barrels with nothing then you OBVIOUSLY play differently against them.

[PinkSteel]

Have I got this right? I'm still building a game and might want to try this sometime. IF:
* there's a passive player at the table
* he raises from EP
* mostly folded to you in LP, so good chance of playing HU
* stacks are relatively deep

You're suggesting I STRONGLY CONSIDER CALLING, EVEN WITH RAGS. (Or should they at least be suited/connected?)

Because:
* your and Villain's hands very likely do not intersect at all
* if you hit the flop he very likely will have missed it
* if you don't hit the flop, you can just let it go and forget it
* he will never be able to put you on your hand
* with your position and a good flop, you stand a decent chance of taking him to the cleaners

You're right, I would generally never try this. But it's worth considering. Any other preconditions to calling pf in this situation?

It seems like the size of Villain's pfr would bear heavily on the decision to call. Call a minraise, sure, but for what raise do you just toss it?