Big pot... 88 overpair

rgb · #1 04-23-2005, 10:11 AM

MP2 was down to his last $2 so his raise smelled of a desperate last throw of the dice

Button was aggressive PF and neutral post flop. Many times he had raised/reraised in LP with any pair/any 2 broadway.

The rest of the table seemed typically passive -- no further reads.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 caps, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

MP2 was almost all-in. Button's raise could be any 2 big cards or any pair.
I reckoned this was going to be 5 or 6 way so I thought I should call.

Flop: (25 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 calls $0.25 (All-In), Button raises, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, Button calls.

With so many in the pot, I figured I had to try and get some of them out the best I could. Even though my checkraise didn't protect against much, it was the best hope I had of folding some of the field. I didn't want to wait for the turn as almost any card was a scare card.

Turn: (16.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, UTG calls, Button calls.

Got 2 of them out and the Button just called my CR so I think there's a fair possibility I have the best had.

River: (19.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, UTG folds, Button calls.

Check call here?

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

I'm particularly interested in my flop action. If I waited for the turn to CR I could offer shorter odds to the chasers but 90% of the time I would hate the turn card (as it turned out, the 7s was one of the few good cards).

Thanks

rgb

Dave G. · #2 04-23-2005, 10:28 AM

Your flop raise isn't offering anyone unattractive odds here. Even 3 out draws can call your raise profitably. I think it was lucky that you got UTG+1 and UTG+2 to fold, they almost certainly made an error in doing so.

I like waiting for the turn to check-raise here. The reason is exactly because of what you said. Almost any turn card is a scare card. By waiting to see what comes on the turn, you can a) avoid comitting a lot of money to a pot where the turn destroys your hand and b) when an undercard comes, you have a larger equity edge to exploit because it's less likely an overcard will come to beat you. Additionally you'll be offering much worse odds to the field when you check-raise.

I think the rest is fine though.

xenthebrain · #3 04-23-2005, 10:36 AM

I'd fold preflop.

On the flop in this big pot I bet out instantly with an overpair.

ArturiusX · #4 04-23-2005, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong answer.

Patriarch · #5 04-23-2005, 10:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong answer.

[/ QUOTE ]
Couldn't you explain WHY?
The only thing I get from your post is that you're possibly an [censored]. There's no point in posting crap like that.

rgb · #6 04-23-2005, 11:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Your flop raise isn't offering anyone unattractive odds here. Even 3 out draws can call your raise profitably. I think it was lucky that you got UTG+1 and UTG+2 to fold, they almost certainly made an error in doing so.

[/ QUOTE ]

MP2 put in his last 0.25 and the Button raised -- so when I checkraised it had the appearance of bet, raise, check-3bet to those behind me.

I knew I was offering crap odds, but I tried it to make some of them fold incorrectly with the intimidation factor of a check-3bet.

Any merit in this thinking?

rgb

Zoelef · #7 04-23-2005, 11:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong answer.

[/ QUOTE ]
Couldn't you explain WHY?
The only thing I get from your post is that you're possibly an [censored]. There's no point in posting crap like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

On SB's turn, he's getting current odds of 9.5-2.5. However, MP2 is going to complete the 3rd bet and given the passivity of the table at least one of the first three callers will likely cold-call. Assuming that, your alleged odds are 12.5-2.5, or at least 5-to-1 (higher if others may call). At that point, calling the 3-bet is more reasonable with 88 - mostly because as the OP states, MP2 is deliberately spewing PF, so I'm only worried about the Button and he doesn't automatically have an overpair.

I like every street here given the reads. Without reads, though, I'd probably drop this unless I had AA-JJ(maybe TT) or AKs/o.

ArturiusX · #8 04-23-2005, 11:10 AM

Yes there is, because it is the wrong answer.

Pot odds are giving us better than 7.5:1. What else do you need?

ArturiusX · #9 04-23-2005, 11:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Couldn't you explain WHY?
The only thing I get from your post is that you're possibly an [censored]. There's no point in posting crap like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

What crap? He had the wrong answer, folding preflop is -EV. Was I demeaning him somehow?

Dave G. · #10 04-23-2005, 11:38 AM

I didn't know that it was 3 to the field rather than 2. Still, the odds aren't all that bad. Gutshots and the like can still call here.

As for the intimidation factor of the move, that can certainly work against weaker opponents, but against pot odds aware opponents who know what they're doing it's going to just help bloat the pot for them to keep drawing at you. It's not a bad play anyway, I just think doing it on the turn is a bit better.