KJ on BB, Should I have folded preflop? Turn?

Yodaman · #1 04-23-2005, 03:21 AM

No Reads, Villain VP$IP: 19, PFR: 9.43, Avg Agg. 1.3

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, 3 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls.

River: (9.16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.16 BB

Is this a leak in my game, because I feel it is, or is it just something everyone does.

toss · #2 04-23-2005, 03:28 AM

Noramlly I play it like this too, but I think I need to modify my line call the turn and fold the river UI. Villain has low avg. aggro factor so his turn raise should mean something.

Entity · #3 04-23-2005, 03:30 AM

Villain's line is the official "I just pwned the hell out of you with KK" line. Folding to the turn raise is correct.

Folding preflop would be good too.

TheDelChop · #4 04-23-2005, 03:39 AM

Yeah this a a big leak in your game, you should really be folding this on the turn.

[ QUOTE ]
Villain's line is the official "I just pwned the hell out of you with KK(or some overpair)" line

[/ QUOTE ]

toss · #5 04-23-2005, 04:14 AM

But Hero is getting 1-8.16 on his call so it would correct to chase with 5 outs. Are we folding since our King outs may be dirty?

Entity · #6 04-23-2005, 04:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But Hero is getting 1-8.16 on his call so it would correct to chase with 5 outs. Are we folding since our King outs may be dirty?

[/ QUOTE ]

We only have a 5-outer against exactly QQ. We have 2 outs with AA, 2 outs with KK, 0 outs with JJ, and 5 with QQ. It's a fold.

Jules22 · #7 04-23-2005, 04:22 AM

i like folding preflop there with kjo vs a raiser. kjo just seems like it sucks too much oop vs a raiser, even from the blinds. with a few more cold callers it would prolly be better

toss · #8 04-23-2005, 04:24 AM

And its not even close. Gotcha [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Ass Master · #9 04-23-2005, 04:27 AM

I would fold this preflop because you pretty much have to give MP2 credit for a legitimate raising hand and many of these will have you dominated. Looking at it another way, I estimate that you have about 25% pot equity in this situation. Though you are getting 5.5:1 and thus seem to have an overlay initially, your positional disadvantage throughout the hand will tend to put you in situations postflop where you either win the least or lose the most.

Fold the turn - you do not have anywhere near the effective odds to call down here.

PokerBob · #10 04-23-2005, 12:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No Reads, Villain VP$IP: 19, PFR: 9.43, Avg Agg. 1.3

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, 3 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls.

River: (9.16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.16 BB

Is this a leak in my game, because I feel it is, or is it just something everyone does.

[/ QUOTE ]

I refer to KJo as "The Devil's Hand", because it looks pretty and nice and tempts you and gets you in all kinds of trouble. Playing TDH against a raise is very costly in most cases. Ask yourself this, "What hands does the raiser have that I will be happy about?" KT, QJ and TT-88. Any other reasonable raising hands have you demolished. IF the pot is multi-way, I think you can call with KJs in this spot, but I dump this without a 2nd thought.