J10s in big pot

medaugh · #1 04-22-2005, 04:17 PM

My first hand post,so in addition to any comments of the play let me know how well or bad i did posting it.
PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, UTG raises, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Hero folds, SB calls.

River: (13 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

No real reads pre-flop but it was a loose table with 6-7 players per flop.

1. O.K. to cold call pre flop right, maybe raise? (If yes why because I don't think so)
2. should have raised on flop?
3. This is my real question. My read is that the villian has made his straight on 4th street. I have a draw to mine, However it will be a split pot. Should the fact that it is a split pot (provided I make my hand) figure into the pot odds on weither to call or not.

Have at it. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I played it right untill 4th street then i turned back into the scared little puss I was playing like before I found 2+2 books and web site. Believe me you can't kick my ass any harder than I have. Although I played this pretty bad, I still had a winning session...err may be a profitable learning session is a better way to look at it.

fluxrad · #2 04-22-2005, 04:37 PM

I think you should raise this flop for value. These guys are calling with anything.

On the turn, you're getting 12:1 (13:1 since BB will likely call). You're drawing to 4 outs if the villain played T8 or 58 from UTG, and half of the time an 8 will make you a winner. Otherwise, you're drawing to probably about 5 outs give or take (I'll just discount the T's algotether since that puts 3 connected on the board).

I think a call on the turn is +EV.

-- EDIT: I AM A TOOL. You're getting 13:2 which is a fold. --

GrunchCan · #3 04-22-2005, 04:41 PM

Welcome to the forums.

When posting a hand, cut the action at your desicion point, or when you fold. Results don't matter. In this case, you end your post with "Hero...?" becasue your main question is wether or not to fold the turn.

Some of this advice might be controversial. Your milage may vary.

PF: You have a good multiway hand on the button in a good multiway pot. Calling 2 cold here is fine & standard. You might consider 3-betting however. 1) Most players will check any flop to you, giving you intitiative. 2) Position is power. Money tends to flow towards the button. 3) If you hit the flop hard, nobody will think you were crazy enough to 3-bet PF with a crappy JTs, and you'll get action. 4) If you hit the flop just a little and want to see a turn, if everybody checks the flop to you the PFR bought you 4 free cards.

I can fold that turn. You're getting 6:1 on a likely 4-outer to a split. Even if UTG didn't make a striaght, he prb made 2-pair or better.

GrunchCan · #4 04-22-2005, 04:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, you're getting 12:1

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

_bustedflush_ · #5 04-22-2005, 04:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, you're getting 12:1 (13:1 since BB will likely call). You're drawing to 4 outs if the villain played T8 or 58 from UTG, and half of the time an 8 will make you a winner. Otherwise, you're drawing to probably about 5 outs give or take (I'll just discount the T's algotether since that puts 3 connected on the board).

I think a call on the turn is +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't we getting 13:2 odds because we are cold calling a raise?

Personally, this is typically a muck preflop, but with so many callers, I would be tempted. I would raise the flop for value. At that point, we probably would have the odds to call the turn raise.

Redd · #6 04-22-2005, 04:43 PM

Welcome to the forums - I'm grunching, so take my thoughts with a grain of "this guy sucks as poker" salt.

Preflop: With this many limpers and position, its a straightforward cold-call IMO. I definitely wouldn't 3-bet this, because you're likely a dog against the pfr and you want the blinds to call.

Flop: You likely have the best hand here. But, you can't protect anything by raising. This seems like a good time to raise a safe turn to push a greater equity edge. If that's what you were going for, I like the call.

Turn: Usually, you do need to discount pot odds for a split pot. In this case, it doesn't matter because even if you're not splitting, you don't have anywhere near the pot odds to call 2 to draw for a gutshot. Good fold.

So IMO the hand was played well, as long as you call the flop and fold the turn for the right reasons.

fluxrad · #7 04-22-2005, 04:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, you're getting 12:1

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Grunch is correct. You're getting 13:2, or 7.5:1 since I completely neglected to calculate in the cost of the raise. If that's the case. I fold.

Nothing to see here...

car ramrod · #8 04-22-2005, 04:54 PM

With that many people in the hand I would call this pf. I would like to hear some thoughts on raising, even if the thoughts are don't do it, I'm curious if thats a good play.
10J is a good multiway hand, but if you can get a couple people to incorrectly fold that would be nice. Especially on a flop like this.

Flop - I would raise. Get rid of some of these guys hanging on with a piece, they may hit two pair on you or hit their gutshot. If it doesn't clear anyone out, well its a raise for value.

Turn looks bad for you, as now you don't really have outs to call. Seeing as how you just called the flop, I would fold the turn. Your gutshot could end up splitting anyway. And a 10 is not good for you.

parappa · #9 04-22-2005, 04:57 PM

I would've folded preflop, though you probably have enough people in that a cold-call is okay. A raise is out.

I think the call on the flop is okay. A raise isn't going to get anyone to fold and you can't raise for value.

Turn fold is fine, though I would've called one bet here. Yes, you should take the chance that you'll chop into account when evaluating your odds.

Redd · #10 04-22-2005, 04:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the call on the flop is okay. A raise isn't going to get anyone to fold and you can't raise for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think there's any value here? I was thinking the flop could be raised for value, but I liked raising the turn for more value.