AJs - i have no clue

mr pink · #1 04-21-2005, 09:29 PM

bb in this hand is a TAZ - interesting side note to him.
utg+1 is a fish - 30/3/1

he open limps on the button, i raise in the sb with KQo, bb folds, he 3-bets, i call. flop comes like 4 9 T rainbow, i check/call. turn: Q. i bet, he raises, i call. river: 3 i check/call. he shows down A8o, so keep that in mind.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls $5.64 (All-In), MP2 calls, 3 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (18.60 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, BB raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

i didn't really know what to make of the bb's check/raise here. seeing how out of line he got on the previous hand, i wasn't giving him credit for anything just yet. i didn't feel like 3-betting would do much good at this point, and i figured he would lead the turn so i thought it was a good spot to raise a somewhat safe card.

Turn: (13.30 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players, 1 all-in)
BB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

i don't know where i'm at here but getting 20:1 to see the river and from what i've seen on this opponent, i clearly can't fold.

River: (22.30 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

i planned on calling a bet here, but wasn't feeling great about it.

comments? on all streets appreciated. i felt kind of lost on this one.

shant · #2 04-21-2005, 09:50 PM

Why not cap preflop with position on the maniac?

Aside from that, I like your wait for the turn to raise his bet as he will most likely bet any card after checkraising.

I think when he checks the river you have a value bet, but I'm not sure with UTG+1 being in there and calling cold so much.

Catt · #3 04-21-2005, 09:53 PM

I'm not sure why you felt that 3-betting the flop wouldn't do much good. You might lose the two that are trapped, but if you lose them here they would be unlikely to call 2-cold on the turn if you're planning on raising BB's bet then. I think I would 3-bet for value on this flop (and would not be surprised to see it capped).

I like your raise on the turn, but this is not a great card for you. It pairs the board and brings in the flush obviously. When UTG+1 cold-calls, and then calls the three-bet, I am starting to get really worried that he has a flush, but is not convinced that you don't have a higher flush. I like calling the turn 3-bet from TAZ.

I think I would bet this river expecting on of two outcomes: (1) UTG+1 folds and we either showdown a winner against TAZ or have to call a TAZ raise before showing down a winner; or (2) UTG+1 calls, and whatever TAZ does we're losing to UTG+1's less-than-nut flush. I can see overcalling TAZ in a pot this size; if it was two back to me, despite getting 13:1 or so, I think I could let this go (but not sure that I should).

mr pink · #4 04-21-2005, 10:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure why you felt that 3-betting the flop wouldn't do much good. You might lose the two that are trapped, but if you lose them here they would be unlikely to call 2-cold on the turn if you're planning on raising BB's bet then. I think I would 3-bet for value on this flop (and would not be surprised to see it capped).

[/ QUOTE ]

i figured the TAZ would pretty much autobet the turn after check/raising the flop whether he had a hand or not. i was concerned that if i 3-bet, he might check the turn. i'm not sure what is best though, 3-betting the flop here or waiting for the turn. with the pot as big as it is on the flop, and 3-betting, no one would be making a mistake by calling - but my raise would be for value, but i also felt it might possible kill some strategic benefits that were lined up on the turn by just calling the flop check/raise.

i really dunno what's best, but those are my thoughts on the matter.

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would bet this river expecting on of two outcomes: (1) UTG+1 folds and we either showdown a winner against TAZ or have to call a TAZ raise before showing down a winner; or (2) UTG+1 calls, and whatever TAZ does we're losing to UTG+1's less-than-nut flush. I can see overcalling TAZ in a pot this size; if it was two back to me, despite getting 13:1 or so, I think I could let this go (but not sure that I should).

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah i think i missed a bet on the river, but with the fish holding up all that heat preflop, and turn... i guess i wussed out. part of me thought that the TAZ might be donking around, hoping to check/raise... which i'd have hated.

littlejohn · #5 04-22-2005, 12:19 AM

I like your line here - and it's very possible you won this hand. My concern isn't BB here but it's UTG+1 - either he's really bad or he's sitting on an overpair or a busted 4 flush after the turn.

But if you bet the river and get called by UTG+1 I think you lose this hand so it's not a value bet to me.

Nice hand.

PokerBob · #6 04-22-2005, 12:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i figured he would lead the turn so i thought it was a good spot to raise a somewhat safe card

[/ QUOTE ]

We must have different definitions of what a "safe" card is, cuz IMO the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ain't it.

PokerBob · #7 04-22-2005, 12:26 AM

.....is that TAZ acted like a jackass earlier HU. I don't think we can assume he'll get all nuts with 4 opponents the same way he would HU with position. He may, but I don't think we have enough evidence to support that at this point.

Justin A · #8 04-22-2005, 12:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
.....is that TAZ acted like a jackass earlier HU. I don't think we can assume he'll get all nuts with 4 opponents the same way he would HU with position. He may, but I don't think we have enough evidence to support that at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. A guy who checkraises the field on the flop isn't making a play at the pot.

mr pink · #9 04-22-2005, 12:52 AM

yeah i'll give you that. there are definitely better cards to have fallen on the turn... what would you have done differently? i'm guessing you'd like the turn raise more if it had been the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?