Newish to 2+2 T8s on Button how is flop play here?

Bankuri · #1 04-21-2005, 10:41 AM

I've been playing hold 'em for a few months online (not terribly new to poker, but this is the first time I've played outside of friendly home games), and have been reading the forums regularly for about two of those months.

I've been working on my aggression and this is a hand that came up recently. I am pretty sure I made the right move by raising the flop here, but I'd like to get some input as these sorts of decisions are costing me money I think.

So, I'm playing at a typical .5/1 party poker table. Sat down recently so I haven't seen much from many of the players. The hands I have seen are the basic ace-rag, suited junk hands that I always seem to see at these tables.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: bankuri is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO (Victim)/ calls, bankuri calls, SB completes, BB checks.

I don't generally even enter a pot with this hand. Been reading around and decided maybe I should be more often on the button.

Flop: (7 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, Victim bets, bankuri raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Victim calls.

Ok, typical weak play on the flop from the first limpers. I have top pair so I figure I'll raise to accomplish two things...find out where I'm at and get rid of some of the limpers. Seems the raise accomplished at least one of those things so I'm happy going into the turn heads-up.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Victim bets, bankuri calls.

Oy! Victim has something here, but I just caught myself a draw in addition to top pair...call is a no brainer here.

River: (7.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Victim bets, bankuri raises, Victim 3-bets, bankuri caps, Victim calls.

Jackpot!

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

Ok, this hand worked out. Obviously I could have lost this hand at many points along the way...were any of my moves (especially the pre-flop call and the flop raise) questionable?

Bankuri

tiltaholic · #2 04-21-2005, 10:47 AM

oy! nice catch! [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
welcome...
the hand was well played throughout. i would say the T8s on the button is a good positional limp with so many in this unraised pot...but i wouldn't recomend it for a beginner who is uncomfortable with postflop play.

good flop raise.
good turn call.
good river aggression. some may argue against a river cap, but i think it is profitable.

what part did you have a question about?? (better to post hands with specific questions...)

Bankuri · #3 04-21-2005, 10:49 AM

I mentioned in the paragraph preceding the hand it was the flop play. I am still struggling with playing a hand like this aggressively on the flop. I think I oscillate between being too aggressive and too timid rarely striking the right balance. I made a nice catch, but that doesn't mean I played the hand right.

Bankuri

jrz1972 · #4 04-21-2005, 10:50 AM

Nice hand. Well played on all streets.

You suck out g00t. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Somekid · #5 04-21-2005, 10:52 AM

I like your play. The flop raise probably eliminated most the overcards. Everything looks standard to me.

wyoak · #6 04-21-2005, 10:54 AM

here's a thought...I've been playing LAGGish lately since it's fun, and been raising stuff like this from the button if the blinds are loose and there are more than two limpers in front of me.
I probably wouldn't do it with this, but I have been with T9s and 98s as well as some (but not much, only if I've got a pretty good read on the table) J9s. Any lags think there might be value raising here?

tiltaholic · #7 04-21-2005, 10:58 AM

i missed that. you did in fact ask about the flop raise.
imho, that is a perfect flop raise. textbook perfect. the pot is getting big, and you have top pair weak kicker and bdfd. you are given a perfect opportunity to force the entire field with 2 bets cold. you must take it and try to increase your chances of winning the pot. anyone who folds an overcard to you ten will greatly help your chances.

[ QUOTE ]
I made a nice catch, but that doesn't mean I played the hand right.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey, it happens to all of us. sometimes we catch, sometimes we don't. and you are precisely right. but you played this hand well. people will kidd you about the "suckout". but you didn't - the cards just fell your way.

rafct · #8 04-21-2005, 11:04 AM

With 4 callers already and the button I dont see folding this hand as an option. Some might even argue for a equity raise preflop, but I dont feel very comfortable with these plays.
The river cap seems ok to me because it is hard to put him on a flush. What hand with two hearts would make him bet the flop? You have the 10[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. What did he have? I think he got excited with JT or was playing a set (22/44).

jrz1972 · #9 04-21-2005, 11:15 AM

I'm making a concious effort to pfr more often. (I used to be around 7.5% and am now up to about 9%). But strikes me as over-doing things. I'm guessing the 12% pfr folks would probably balk at this too.

droolie · #10 04-21-2005, 11:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm making a concious effort to pfr more often. (I used to be around 7.5% and am now up to about 9%). But strikes me as over-doing things. I'm guessing the 12% pfr folks would probably balk at this too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm 12%er and I'm not raising this pf.

I love the way you played this hand. Textbook. On the flop you have perfect position to protect this very vulnerable made hand. Not raising would be pretty bad IMO.

When villian bets into you on the turn you correctly assumed you were in trouble but knew you had outs (Now you can see why sooted hands gain so much value.)

The river is automatic. You win this hand well over 80% of the time even when he three-bets.