I just had my ass handed to me HU

kurosh · #1 04-21-2005, 04:50 AM

I've been playing a lot HU lately and most of the better people I've seen play and played against, play the majority of their hands. If you fold too much, you're going to get killed HU, or so I thought.

I feel violated. This guy completely dominated me. His PF strategy is pretty tight. His VPIP was 62%! He very rarely flat called a button raise from me. Most of the time, he would either fold or 3-bet. Postflop, he was extremely aggressive.

I'm trying to figure out if he outplayed me postflop, the preflop strategy works or if I just ran bad/he ran good. There were a couple hands like this:

Ultimate Bet 30/60 Hold'em (2 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Button raises, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (9 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 5h 3h (two pair, fives and threes).
Button has Ks Kc (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Button wins 11 BB. 

But I'm not sure... would some experienced HU people be willing to take a look at the hand history? It was only 100 hands so I might even be able to post it here if there's sufficient interest. I think I played badly too. I couldn't adjust well to his strategy. I lost 33BB in 100 hands.

Is it possible to win HU playing so tightly against a similar skilled postflop player?

schubes · #2 04-21-2005, 05:09 AM

Normally I might feel competent talking about HU, but I just got my ass handed to me (or rather I handed my ass to them) to the tune of 60 BB in a half hour. Fortunately I won half of it back at a 5-max table.

I empathize with the hand you posted - it looks painfully familiar - but to me it looks like you played it too passively. Obviously you know your opponent better than I do, but I would take a stab at the flop, and I might even be tempted to cap the turn. Then again that may just be the tilt talking.

TStoneMBD · #3 04-21-2005, 05:14 AM

i really dont know how you can give this guy credit as the most talented and innovative headsup player on the planet just because you ran cold for 100 hands.

kurosh · #4 04-21-2005, 05:14 AM

After a PFR, he's autobetting the flop. I have a good chance of being ahead and if I'm not, I have a ton of outs. I bet out on the flop 0% of the time. I CR the flop about 25%, call 75% planning to CR or bet out on the turn here.

But I'm really not looking for criticism on the hand. I want to know if this is a viable PF strategy.

kurosh · #5 04-21-2005, 05:16 AM

This is my basic question: Is a VPIP of 62% and mainly 3-betting or folding PF then being very aggressive post flop a theoretically sound strategy?

schubes · #6 04-21-2005, 05:18 AM

No of course it's not a winning PF strategy.

I think you're giving up something if you never bet out on the flop. Sure he'll always bet so you can check-raise, but by betting out you can induce him to raise so you can 3-bet with decent hands, and you're getting better odds to bluff on ragged flops.

kurosh · #7 04-21-2005, 05:23 AM

I do my gaybets on the turn for a couple reasons. A lot of the time, even with nothing, they'll call the flop bet and if I'm bluffing, I'm in an awkward situation on the turn. The turn bet makes it more likely that I don't want them to check behind a weak hand. Also, when they raise and I can 3-bet the turn charges them more. I just don't see much of a benefit in betting out on the flop in raised pots. If I do it, it's very rarely.

Trix · #8 04-21-2005, 05:29 AM

If you fold too much when he 3bets you.

kurosh · #9 04-21-2005, 05:29 AM

I think it was a combination of running bad and being too passive... Since he folded 40% of the time, I started raising off the button every single time. When he 3-bet, the majority of the time I'd have some garbage like 83o. I'd fold the flop if I didn't hit a pair or any sort of a draw, even overs. If I had a pair, I'd raise him on the turn or river. Hm... I need to think about this some more. Against someone who raises off the button 100% of the time, I think I need to rethink my 3-betting standards and loosen them up quite a bit.

schubes · #10 04-21-2005, 05:32 AM

You're going to have a lot of awkward situations HU no matter what your strategy is. Your opponent will start folding on the flop to your bet if you punish them that way once. How often do they fold on the flop to a bluff checkraise? But I like to checkraise often too, mixing up your play HU is good! (but you know that of course)

As far as gaybetting (aren't you guys calling it donkbetting now?) with intention of 3-betting, I wouldn't want to do that often without a strong hand.