KQo flopped a straight on a scary board

Dangergirl · #1 04-20-2005, 01:50 PM

Villain is 61/3/1 after approximately 30 some hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls.

River: (8 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls $1 (All-In).

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

Should I have gone for a check raise on the flop? Was the call on the river right? After the Villains raise on the river, I was almost sure he rivered the full house, so I just called.

Stu Pidasso · #2 04-20-2005, 01:56 PM

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I was almost sure he rivered the full house, so I just called.

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If he rivered a full house, he would have had to have either a set or two pair on the turn. If he had either of those he would have told you on the turn.

Stu

meep_42 · #3 04-20-2005, 02:01 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
I was almost sure he rivered the full house, so I just called.

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If he rivered a full house, he would have had to have either a set or two pair on the turn. If he had either of those he would have told you on the turn.

Stu

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I disagree. A hand like KT/KJ could be deathly afraid of the 4-card straight. And with MP1 almost all-in, there's little point in pressing 2-pair there.

-d

Stu Pidasso · #4 04-20-2005, 02:06 PM

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I disagree. A hand like KT/KJ could be deathly afraid of the 4-card straight.

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You are correct.

Stu

damaniac · #5 04-20-2005, 02:19 PM

As raiser pre-flop, checking looks awfully suspicious, so it may well just be checked through, which you don't want when people more than likely have enough of the board to want to call you. The river is fine given that the other player is almost all in. At best, you and villain are chopping (with MP probably just donating his last buck to you both), at worst he's got a boat. So raising really nets you nothing when you are ahead and loses you bets when behind.

While that is the correct play, I really have to ask, what makes you so certain he just rivered a boat? I agree that two pair is scared on the turn, but he'd certainly raise this river with a straight, and possibly (though doubtful) trips as well. In that sense I think you're seeing monsters, but the play was still correct.

meep_42 · #6 04-20-2005, 02:35 PM

At 2/4, i'd be shocked if this were raised without at least a straight. There's no point in raising a chop when it's not the nuts -- and there's a non-trivial chance that you're beat.

What trips would villain be raising with? K9, K-rag? With a 1 AG and Hero betting the whole way, I don't think this gets raised with trips. And often I don't think it gets raised without a boat, as the fishies are usually unwilling to raise in such a marginal situation.

-d

Dangergirl · #7 04-20-2005, 03:26 PM

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I disagree. A hand like KT/KJ could be deathly afraid of the 4-card straight. And with MP1 almost all-in, there's little point in pressing 2-pair there.

-d

[/ QUOTE ]
Good point here. Villain had KTo and rivered the full house. Thanks for all the responses.

KDawgCometh · #8 04-20-2005, 04:05 PM

I think he just caught trips on the river. If he had AK, it would've been raised PF, and you wouldn't have even had the chance to be in the pot in the first place.Its possible that it could be a chop, but KJ or K10 certainly would've raised the turn, epsecially with those stats. When I see those fosh-like stats to me it means that 2 pair is where they start raising a PF raiser who's had the lead the entire way. Go nuts on the river there

KDawgCometh · #9 04-20-2005, 04:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was almost sure he rivered the full house, so I just called.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he rivered a full house, he would have had to have either a set or two pair on the turn. If he had either of those he would have told you on the turn.

Stu

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. A hand like KT/KJ could be deathly afraid of the 4-card straight. And with MP1 almost all-in, there's little point in pressing 2-pair there.

-d

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I'm not so sure because of those stats. A fish might not be thinking that and really be thinking, hey I have two pair here

meep_42 · #10 04-20-2005, 04:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think he just caught trips on the river. If he had AK, it would've been raised PF, and you wouldn't have even had the chance to be in the pot in the first place.Its possible that it could be a chop, but KJ or K10 certainly would've raised the turn, epsecially with those stats. When I see those fosh-like stats to me it means that 2 pair is where they start raising a PF raiser who's had the lead the entire way. Go nuts on the river there

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Fish don't bet/raise on 3 flush boards.
Fish don't bet/raise on 4 straight boards.

It's just not happening with a 1 AF.

He could easily have 2-pair on the turn and you'd never know it.

-d