88 heads up

fluxrad · #1 04-19-2005, 01:18 AM

I'm working on GregJ's principle of not open-limping. How's my line and did I properly apply the principle here?

No reads yet. Villain just sat down.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (5.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Redd · #2 04-19-2005, 01:25 AM

I like the pfr. After he pusses out on the turn, I'd lead the river.

flopwell · #3 04-19-2005, 01:30 AM

grunching

tough flop for you, but I think you have the implied odds to call it.

the rest of the hand is standard. congrats on moving up a level.

Catt · #4 04-19-2005, 01:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like the pfr. After he pusses out on the turn, I'd lead the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why lead the river? What hand do we beat that will call a river bet?

Redd · #5 04-19-2005, 01:50 AM

I like a river bet because there isn't many logical PF 3-betting hands that a reasonable opponent would check behind on the turn.

It looks like there's 2 likely possibilities here:

1) Villain has JJ, TT and got scared by the second overcard.
2) Villain thought Hero was getting aggressive and opening with crap, or Villain is getting too aggressive himself.

Case 1)
If Villain has JJ, TT, he might bet it out if you keep checking the riv. He likely won't raise it tho. So there's a decent chance you'll be paying a bet to get to showdown either way if you're behind.

Case 2)
If Villain puts you on overcards or if he's an idiot, he'll likely pay off your river bet because he respectively thinks you're bluffing, or is an idiot.

So IMO if you're ahead, you might get called, and if you're behind, you might be paying a bet anyways.

Ianco15 · #6 04-19-2005, 02:29 AM

I would check/fold the flop. Just about the only hand that you beat on this flop that an unknown (non-LAG) would 3-bet preflop is QK. Without a read you don't know if you can push him off something like KK or QQ. I would fold this flop without a read on Sb.

Catt · #7 04-19-2005, 02:34 AM

Yeah. I'm really struggling with river value betting. I see someone fold to my river bet and convince myself that they would've bet my check and I would've pocketed an extra BB when ahead and lose the same when behind. But I think I am letting too many worse hands check through that would've called a river bet and not getting enough bets from worse hands to make up the shortfall. Having a tough time finding the right balance.

wrto4556 · #8 04-19-2005, 03:05 AM

If you're calling a river bet you have you bet yourself. By checking and calling you miss out on a big bet when you are ahead but still lose a BB when you are behind.

Bet/fold the river.

Catt · #9 04-19-2005, 03:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you're calling a river bet you have you bet yourself. By checking and calling you miss out on a big bet when you are ahead but still lose a BB when you are behind.

Bet/fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems way too dogmatic to me and incorrect. There are plenty of times when you want to check-call instead of bet. If Villain folds to a bet when he would've taken a stab at the pot when we check, we're missing out on a BB. I'm just having a real challenge identifying those situations where checking to induce a bet makes more sense then betting outright.

sweave1 · #10 04-19-2005, 04:59 AM

*grunch*

wow a raise with 8's in the mid, ive often wondered if that isnt a great play with any pocket pair, but overall i rarley hit my set.

i check on the flop if it checks through i fold to any bets.