More On My Favorite Theme

gaming_mouse · #1 04-18-2005, 06:12 AM

Folding.

Hand 1's villain was unknown. On the turn I was fairly sure he was trying to get rid of other aces. On the river I was less sure.

Hand 2's villain was like 27% after 30 hands. He aggression seemed normal to low, and I'd see no tricky plays from him.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, 4 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: (7.66 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (13.66 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero ??

-----------------

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 6 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (7.16 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero ???

Nate tha' Great · #2 04-18-2005, 06:18 AM

Hand 1 is a ridiculously easy fold on the river, though there's a good argument for raising on either the flop or the turn.

Hand 2 I call down without thinking about it for one bet. If the player had proven over a larger sample of hands that he wasn't going to play like this without at least trip aces, perhaps I could find a fold.

Moozh · #3 04-18-2005, 06:20 AM

Ugh, strange hands. For hand 1, I think that if you're calling UTG+1's raise on the turn, you should call the river. If you don't think you have UTG+1 beat on the turn, I'm not sure your draw to the 3rd nut one card flush is good enough to continue. If you do think you have UTG+1 beat on the turn, then you have to call the river. Based on the turn action, you don't have to be afraid of UTG re-raising the river.

On hand 2, I think this is a river fold. Most likely UTG has a weaker ace that all of a sudden looked a lot better on the river.

Moozh · #4 04-18-2005, 06:22 AM

Ha, I love it. Nothing like going 0 for 2 to build your confidence! Maybe this is why I don't win at this poker thing...

synthtrance · #5 04-18-2005, 06:22 AM

Hand 2:
why not limp with QKo?
I would call the river.

gaming_mouse · #6 04-18-2005, 06:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 is a ridiculously easy fold on the river, though there's a good argument for raising on either the flop or the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered the flop raise, but figured it would be futile (and vulnerable to a 3bet) because it could so easily be interpreted as a free card play.

The turn raise is a great idea, and seems like the obvious reaction given my read of his raise. I don't know why I didn't think of it. Do you think it's pretty easy?

gaming_mouse · #7 04-18-2005, 06:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2:
why not limp with QKo?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very, very easy raise. Have you read "Small Stakes Holdem"?

Moozh · #8 04-18-2005, 06:36 AM

I've thought about hand 1 a bit more. I definitely agree with the turn 3-bet. I think that makes the river much easier to play as well. That said, can you explain why you think the river fold is so easy? I can definitely see a fold there, but I also feel that UTG+1 could play a worse ace that way often enough for you to be ahead here.

Carmine · #9 04-18-2005, 07:30 AM

Hand 1- Tough. Not 3-betting the turn really hurts after 3-betting PF because you get put on KK or less and are not a consideration to UTG+1 holding Ax. On the river I'm not sure if UTG's S&G means I have a set and am not afarid of the flush anymore or I have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and even though the board paired I'm an idiot and don't realize my kicker still plays. Then we have to worry does UTG+1 Ax=AK. I think you have to lay this down. If you lay down the best hand you have no other to blame but yourself for the turn screw up.

Hand 2- You're toast. Easy laydown on the river. I'll assume the turn bet was to get a free showdown, charge a draw, etc. I'm curious if it would be best just to take the free card on the turn and just give up the river UI.

sthief09 · #10 04-18-2005, 08:04 AM

I like a turn 3-bet in hand 1, folding the river if 4-bet, but calling if called and bet into on the river. the river presents a tough decision of whether to bet if called on the turn and bet into on the river. I think 3-betting for a free showdown unless you river a heart sounds good. I'm concerned though because Nate says it's ridiculously easy fold, but I'd at least hesitate before folding (but I already know I pay off too much). I'm actually equally concerned about UTG. he played the hand a lot like a baby flush or a set. you're probably in 3rd place. at best, UTG+1 has AQ but it seems more like AJh or AKh

in hand 2 I'd expect to be shown a worse Q plenty