Is there ANYTHING good about this hand?

AlphaMeridian · #1 04-17-2005, 12:22 AM

UTG is a maniac. (70/31 ish numbers)
UTG+1 is around the same.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Potential raise here? OTOH, I don't have the high card strength to want to put people out of the pot, so I was thinking a call would be optimal, to encourage multiway action.

Flop: (6 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Here is where I think I might have misplayed it. I don't like folding in this spot though. I have a 4 flush draw to the 2nd nut flush, and 2 more outs to the jacks. I don't like raising and I don't like folding (way too weak/tight for my tastes)

Turn: (7.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls, UTG 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero caps, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

HERE, however, is where I have the real question. Obviously, the flush is made, and it's the nut flush. This is also my limited slowplay - the coldcall instead of the 3 bet. I don't like it, but OTOH, if i 3 bet, they'll KNOW i made the flush. (the flop coldcall+the turn 3 bet).

Actually, the more I think about this, the more I think it stinks. I don't like the flop coldcall, and I don't like the turn coldcall. the more I thinka bout it, the more I'm just HOPING UTG keeps up with his tendencies, and 3bets, WHICH HE DID, but that's NOT guarenteed. The only part of this hand I think i like is the turn cap, and I got there through dubious means.

River: (19.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero caps, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 31.50 BB

Opinions?

-Alpha

Shillx · #2 04-17-2005, 12:26 AM

The preflop call is good in this spot imo since there is a good chance you will get limp reraised. This would be a good place to raise against bad passive players but not so much against bad aggressive players.

The postflop play is pretty poor though. Don't even think when you get a flop like this. Just go huge on all streets. They are blindly putting in raises, and when you flop a pair and a flush draw, you should be as well.

Brad

KaiShin · #3 04-17-2005, 12:34 AM

Are both UTG and UTG+1 showing down crap hands? Are they raising flops and such with bottom pair or T-high? Because that would be what I consider a true maniac. Plenty of people can have ridiculous stats like 70/31 and still find a fold when they know they are in trouble.

If they are true maniacs, I would raise preflop to try and isolate the two of them. Then I'm ramming and jamming every single street.

On the flop, mid-pair + 2nd nut flush draw is a fantastic position against any type of player. The initial CC I can live with, if Button and the blinds are the type to see the turn under pressure, but if they are the fit or fold type I would just 3-bet the flop myself with the goal of capping it. I would definitely cap the flop on the come-back-rounder.

You were pretty lucky that UTG 3-bet the turn so you could cap. True maniacs aren't likely to fold this turn, and there's always the possibility one of them has a straight. I would always 3-bet here as well.

The river is pretty obvious.

ArturiusX · #4 04-17-2005, 12:42 AM

No, gettign a flush in a 31.5BB hand is not good at all [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Isura · #5 04-17-2005, 01:46 AM

You should be putting in more raises on the flop and turn here, especially against maniacs. you are getting paid of way too often with absolute junk. I'd also raise preflop against 2 70/30 limpers.

FreakDaddy · #6 04-17-2005, 02:08 AM

Typically I may limp this hand also, BUT if you have two maniacs in front of you and it can potentially be you and them, I'd raise here to try and get it three way pre-flop.

On the flop I don't mind the first call so much, but I'd definately cap it when it's back to you. If they are true maniacs then they'll still bet out on the turn and you have great pot equity here.

The Turn I'd 3-bet. Again if they're maniacs this won't slow them down. It turned out well for you, but usually maniacs aren't really paying attention to how cordinated the board is, IMO. I wouldn't take the chance here to lose the bets.

River is obviously fine.