Midlimit floaters

[Nate tha' Great]

Schneids touched upon this point a little bit in one of the bicyclekick threads, and it's something that I've been thinking about for awhile, so I thought I'd give it its own vehicle.

One thing I've noticed when I break out of the nice, relaxing 15/30 cycle and play at 30/60 or higher is a pretty sharp increase in the number of *good* or even very good players who will cold call first in before the flop. The prototypical situation would be you raising in early position, everyone folding, and the villian flat calling from say the cutoff.

Is there any particular rhyme or reason to this strategy, as opposed to the standard alternative of 3-betting? Or are these dudes just good enough postflop players that they can get away with doing something suboptimal preflop? I'll confess that I can feel a little bit befuddled in the postflop scenarios that ensue.

[bicyclekick]

I'm very curious about this too.

[helpmeout]

I think its good against a loose raiser when you have a good nonshowdownable hand that needs improvement. Hands like KQo KQs QJs.

You put the opponent on a large range of raising hands but HU against a pair or an Ace you are a dog. If you throw in the blinds as well then your KQs looks pretty good against ATo especially with position.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

when i experiement with floating there are certain upsides to just coldcalling rather than 3-betting.

it will set up a variety of ways to protect your hand by being able to raise the pfr's auto flop bet and knock out the blinds (whether or not they'd be there if you just 3-bet preflop is a different matter), or perhaps wait till the turn.

also it disguises the strength of your hand. for example, there are numerous times where i've just coldcalled AA or KK in the situation you described. when big hands get thrown in the mix it'll increase the floater's bluffing frequency and also allow for free cards if he desired it with other type hands.

the floater will have a good idea on the range of hands the pfr will have, while his hand will remain concealed and he has position.

i wouldn't really know one way or the other the best technique for floating (though I'd suspect 3-betting any holding would be better), but these are some of the thigns i could come up with.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
(though I'd suspect 3-betting any holding would be better)

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, Chris, good stuff.

Just to frame the question a little bit better, this is pretty much what I'm asking: are there scenarios in which it is preferable to cold call here rather than reraise?

[Entity]

It seems that (in theory at least) keeping the pot smaller by not 3-betting preflop may not only disguise your hand, but make it easier to move someone off of a more marginal hand. I'm not quite as sure of that, though -- I don't know whether the lack of preflop aggression is offset enough by the smaller pot size.

Any thoughts on that, Chris, Nate?

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]

Just to frame the question a little bit better, this is pretty much what I'm asking: are there scenarios in which it is preferable to cold call here rather than reraise?

[/ QUOTE ]

40-80 Game

Solid Tricky Good player raises in EP with something,

I have ATo-AQo in the CO or Button. This is where I float.

I have KK - AA in the Co or Button. This is where I float provided the SB and BB are tight and predictable post flop players.

I wouldn't float against poor unthinking opponents who solely play their own hand and could less what I hold. But against a good solid opponent, floating is very important to throw them off. I also would not float against a weak tight player.

Lawrence

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]

Is there any particular rhyme or reason to this strategy, as opposed to the standard alternative of 3-betting? Or are these dudes just good enough postflop players that they can get away with doing something suboptimal preflop? I'll confess that

[/ QUOTE ]

Nate,

You answered your own question:

[ QUOTE ]
I can feel a little bit befuddled in the postflop scenarios that ensue.

[/ QUOTE ]

The call-2 cold in LP versus a TAG that you respect when you have position surely fcks with that TAG.

[andyfox]

"I also would not float against a weak tight player."

Wouldn't this be an ideal type to float against? When you cold-call pre-flop and then, say, call on the flop, don't they tend to freeze up on the turn? I've thrown some floating into my previously just pump-or-dump game and I have greater success against weak-tight players than against trickier types.

[sublime]

i like to float in the pool