Bet into on the turn with flopped set

JimmyJazz1 · #1 04-14-2005, 02:06 AM

Villian is a TAG from what I have seen

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

BB ($590.4)
UTG ($370.2)
Hero ($460.5)
CO ($574.73)
Button ($368.4)
SB ($205.9)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, Hero raises to $12, 3 folds, BB calls $8.

Flop: ($26) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $25, BB calls $25.

Turn: ($76) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $55, Hero?

JohnnyLaw · #2 04-14-2005, 02:35 AM

AK seems likely as I think a tag might reraise with AA or KK preflop. If he has AK, he should go pretty far with the hand and it'll be hard for him to figure you have a set.

AQ and AJ are also possible as he may be trying to figure out where he's at in the hand by leading the turn. If you raise, these hands will likely fold, but you probably wouldn't be able to extract much value out of them anyway.

I think you have to decide how to extract the most money out of AK. If you raise the turn, i doubt he lays down AK, so this may be the best rotue.

Chr · #3 04-15-2005, 04:26 AM

AT first glance I thought this was pretty easy and would raise to 120 and hope for AK and take his stack - a set of 3's is out of the question.

But.... how would a TAG play AK? Not that way. He would hope you had a big A and bet on the flop. Same with an other big A because that will make him able to muck if there is too much action from you.

With AA or KK, he would hope you have a hand. Your potbet gives him hope. If he checks on the turn, he will scare you off by a check raise and has no way to get your stack on the river if he just calls. So he choose to make what looks like a "testing the waters bet" and hope you will play back.

So what do you do? I would still pop it to 120, maybe a bit more, and fold to any action from him since that will lead to playing for the whole stack. Well..... not sure I actually would be able to muck that set at the table, but I think it's the right thing to do. If you can, you earned yourself 300 bucks, but it will haunt you since you will never know if you did right [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

There is a slight chance he's got a big A and then he will fold, but you would not get more anyway.

If you just call, you have a difficult decision on the river if he bets again and it wil probably be more expensive than 120+.

TrailofTears · #4 04-15-2005, 04:43 AM

Why doesn't villain check-call with AA or KK and open the river betting?

Putting the villain on the only two hands that can beat you is very bad to do, especially when nothing in the hand looks like it.

-Trail

hansarnic · #5 04-15-2005, 05:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Villian is a TAG from what I have seen

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

BB ($590.4)
UTG ($370.2)
Hero ($460.5)
CO ($574.73)
Button ($368.4)
SB ($205.9)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, Hero raises to $12, 3 folds, BB calls $8.

Flop: ($26) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $25, BB calls $25.

Turn: ($76) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $55, Hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd call the turn & raise all-in on the river.

Chr · #6 04-15-2005, 05:27 AM

<blockquote>Svar på:<hr />
Why doesn't villain check-call with AA or KK and open the river betting?

-Trail

[/ QUOTE ]

Because villain won't get heros stack that way. The stacks will be too deep on river - seen from villains point of view. He will most likely hope for a big A in heros hand and that smallish turnbet will ensure at least a call from such hands and with a bit of luck more action. With topset, villain wants it all.

But I will admit it's bad putting villain on the only two hands that beats you, thats why I would raise serious to get the other hands out. Hero won't get more anyway execpt if it is AK.

If villain calls turn and checks river a push is fine.

hmmmm... maybe I'm way off here? I don't like mucking sets when opp. gives action and as I said, I probably would go all the way at the table.

Why would a TAG check-call flop and underbet turn after a brick with AK, AQ or AJ? Thats not very TAG. That turnbet is really strange because his hand can't have improved.

JohnnyLaw · #7 04-15-2005, 11:54 AM

If hero calls the turn, they'll be $186 in the pot going into the river and hero will have $380 behind him. I think it would be difficult to get it all in at that point.

SpeakEasy · #8 04-15-2005, 12:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: ($26) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $25, BB calls $25.

Turn: ($76) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $55, Hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise to $210.

partygirluk · #9 04-15-2005, 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If hero calls the turn, they'll be $186 in the pot going into the river and hero will have $380 behind him. I think it would be difficult to get it all in at that point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if Villain leads the river, which he probably would with AK. With AK they are likely getting all in via any reasonable line. Calling the popping the river, or betting it if checked to allows him to extract more from an AQ type hand, induce him to continue bluffing (thought that is unlikely) and hero can slow down if an A or K comes.

hansarnic · #10 04-15-2005, 12:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If hero calls the turn, they'll be $186 in the pot going into the river and hero will have $380 behind him. I think it would be difficult to get it all in at that point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero has position.

Raising the turn basically makes villain play for his stack right there as he knows he'll face a push on the river if he calls. So if he doesn't have AK or better I suspect he folds.

Calling gives villain the opportunity to think that hero wants a cheap showdown. Which may lead to a bet on the river with hands that hero beats that would have folded if he raised the turn.

So it is clearly preferable if there are few cards that can kill hero's action or make villain's hand good. Which, I think, is the case.

Following from that if villain bets the river a raise basically has to be all-in. If villain checks, value betting is an option, as is pushing. Depends on hero's image really.