When do you remove the rake from the pot odds?

[Demana]

At what point should you remove the rake from your pot odds?

I play mostly live, though this should affect online players as well. Say you're in a $3/6 game with a $3 rake and $1 jackpot drop. The house will take the rake on the flop, so shouldn't you remove the rake from your pot odds on the flop too?

[illunious]

As soon as it's raked?

[Demana]

That is what I am wondering because it does affect your (and your opponent's) pot odds on the flop.

[SoCal_Mike]

[ QUOTE ]
At what point should you remove the rake from your pot odds?

[/ QUOTE ]

You should consider it as part of your preflop decision and certainly remove it after the flop. Lots of dealers will take the jackpot out of the small blind immediately and then take the rake out of the pot after dealing the flop.

Online I've found it doesn't matter because the pot is always correct anyway and the rake is much more reasonable. (They take the rake out when it meets the requirements.)

[bholdr]

You should consider it as part of your preflop decision and certainly remove it after the flop.

I'd like to expand on this point breifly.

There are many marginal hands that, if played correctly in a limit game, will be long term winners. however, the higher the rake will be, the less profitable those hands become. in a live 4/8 game with a 1$ jackpot rake and a 3$ normal rake (and a 1-3$ tip), the number of playable marginal hands goes way down- that's almost a whole big bet that's out the window before you start to play the hand!

basicly (very basicly) the higher the rake, the tighter one must play.

[Demana]

[ QUOTE ]
basicly (very basicly) the higher the rake, the tighter one must play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean that the higher the rake in relation to the bet sizes, the tighter one should play?

[RacersEdge]

[ QUOTE ]
You should consider it as part of your preflop decision and certainly remove it after the flop.

I'd like to expand on this point breifly.

There are many marginal hands that, if played correctly in a limit game, will be long term winners. however, the higher the rake will be, the less profitable those hands become. in a live 4/8 game with a 1$ jackpot rake and a 3$ normal rake (and a 1-3$ tip), the number of playable marginal hands goes way down- that's almost a whole big bet that's out the window before you start to play the hand!

basicly (very basicly) the higher the rake, the tighter one must play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I seriously doubt this .6 of a BB has a practical effect on the game. If a pot has 13 BB instead of 13.6, are you going to make any different decisions? Not even 5.6 versus 5.0. I don't see a need to know the pot size down to the exact dollar anyway.

[Demana]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You should consider it as part of your preflop decision and certainly remove it after the flop.

I'd like to expand on this point breifly.

There are many marginal hands that, if played correctly in a limit game, will be long term winners. however, the higher the rake will be, the less profitable those hands become. in a live 4/8 game with a 1$ jackpot rake and a 3$ normal rake (and a 1-3$ tip), the number of playable marginal hands goes way down- that's almost a whole big bet that's out the window before you start to play the hand!

basicly (very basicly) the higher the rake, the tighter one must play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I seriously doubt this .6 of a BB has a practical effect on the game. If a pot has 13 BB instead of 13.6, are you going to make any different decisions? Not even 5.6 versus 5.0. I don't see a need to know the pot size down to the exact dollar anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

But it does have a direct affect on the flop. If there are 4 people to the flop, and the rake is 1 SB, then your pot odds are now 3:1 instead of 4:1.

[bholdr]

[ QUOTE ]
Not even 5.6 versus 5.0.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's an 8.3% difference... 8.3% is huge, when considered over thousands of hands.

what if you had a specific hand, saaayyy... 87s, that your PT stats showed that you played for an avarage 2% profit (RoI) online. this is thus a profitable hand to play. live, with a larger rake, toke, jackpot rake, etc, it becomes an unprofitable hand. if, when you play it, you avarage putting 3.5 BB into the pot, and you lose even 1% of thet, for a 4/8 player, that's an avarage loss of 28c every time you play it!

of course, 28c doesn't matter, does it? of course not. but, play that hand a thousand times a year... that's a flight to vegas, baby!


every little bit, every little edge, it all adds up.

[bholdr]

yes, of course. which is why i always prefer a seat charge to a rake- it doesn't affect the play od specific hands. one less thing to worry about.

in live play, beating the rake is far harder than beating the competition, im my experience, anyway.