Theoretical: What is Optimal Bubble Play

[maddog2030]

This is just a general theory question on SNGs. I've watched hand histories of Daliman, Chief911, etc. and seen them push frequently with anything when it comes to the bubble. I've read dozens of threads about being extremely aggressive in this situation because the calling requirements for others have gone way out of proportion compared to their cash game equivalents (ie. normal pot odds).

But what are the criteria for this situation (obviously on or near the bubble and tight players left to act in the hand, but what else)? Should you be pushing or just raising 3xbb? What stacks do you want to attack the most? Are there exceptions? What are the requirements for your stack? How big do the blinds have to be for this to be worth it (as a function of your starting stack or total chip pool)? If you're caught but survive, should you continue pushing?

And my main question is: How often should you be stealing these blinds before someone's going to take a stand and call you? Obviously this is a problem of a feel for the table, but I'm talking in general. It just seems to me people will see you do it 2-3 times and will take a stand with a hand. Granted I play at the lower limits for SNGs on Pokerstars so the propensity of a player to call is ridiculously higher than in the high limits.

I'm sorry if there's been posts that discuss this in a general sense and I didn't see them. Please post a link if that is the case. I've read many posts about specific bubble situations and how to play those situations, but reading through those I still don't think I have a acquired a "feel" for when it's correct to start pushing hands or when it's better to sit back a little.

[Phil Van Sexton]

See Strassa's post.

[the shadow]

Thanks. I will add this thread to the my Favorite Threads and Links list.

BTW, the original thread on this subject -- already in my Favorite Threads list -- is 10xx BB Rule

The Shadow

[astarck]

While I'm not sure what any specific requirements are for stack size/blinds/etc. I would venture to guess that at the lower limits pushing will get called much more frequently, thus it probably isn't as effective.

I could be on the wrong page here, and with worse opponents at the lower levels pushing could actually be more effective than it is at the higher limits.

Comments?

[maddog2030]

[ QUOTE ]
I could be on the wrong page here, and with worse opponents at the lower levels pushing could actually be more effective than it is at the higher limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd think pushing would be less effective because you want to avoid big confrontations without being in a dominating position (overpair or better kicker). They're generally +EV for everyone else at the table and -EV for you.

[maddog2030]

On a side note: I thought there'd be more posts here by now. Maybe I soured this thread from the beginning by compacting way too many questions in the first post. I was hoping to generate some discussion on what factors affect how you play the bubble and how you respond to them.

[Freudian]

I think this is one of the hardest things to learn. Figuring out what kind of bubble calling ranges others have.

I semi-suck at it though, so I can't really give pointers. I basically assume that tight players have tight calling ranges and loose players will call with more. And this really shouldn't be a PT-descision but a descision made from observations.

[maddog2030]

Would this mean that this pushing play on the bubble only tends to be correct when you or the players left to act only have about 10BB or less?

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
On a side note: I thought there'd be more posts here by now. Maybe I soured this thread from the beginning by compacting way too many questions in the first post. I was hoping to generate some discussion on what factors affect how you play the bubble and how you respond to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your post is far too vague and wide open to generate much useful discussion, IMO, without writing a treatise. Players who could do that aren't going to.

Discuss a specific situation and you'll get a lot more interest, because it gives a starting point for concrete discussion.

eastbay

[maddog2030]

Fair enough. Now that I look at it, you're pretty much right. I rambled on there and it just turned out to be a complete mess. Anyway, I can't think of any specific situations right now so I guess I'll continue to read the posts in the forum and hopefully something will click.

It's just that I know there's something more general going on behind the situations I see here but I haven't been able to put my finger on how it works yet.