PP 15/30- 200+BB downswing

elmo · #1 04-13-2005, 02:42 AM

I have just experienced my first major downswing 8-tabling the party 15/30. While I am clearly not thrilled with the financial result of this swing, I think that it is having a very positive effect on my outlook on my future in poker.

- I've reviewed a bunch of my hands, and have been very happy with the trends in the problem areas that I've been working on. I have been making difficult but correct folds in medium/large pots where the ~20-1 odds really dont justify a call with my hands. Most importantly, I've started folding my ace-highs to checkraises on the turn. With a LAG background in shorthanded play, I have been throwing so much money away in these situations. Combined with some successful and unsuccessful threebets/calldowns, I think this will have a huge longterm effect on my game.

- I've been waiting for my first million hands for the year before I am going to use winrate information to predict my future success. This downswing makes me happy about this decision, because I honestly want the most accurate results possible, and I would be hugely disappointed if I deluded myself.

- In short, I've started to feel like I've won when I check my set through on the river and my opponent flips up the j2s flush.

bicyclekick · #2 04-13-2005, 02:45 AM

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I have just experienced my first major downswing 8-tabling the party 15/30.

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I got this far and no longer needed to read the rest of your post.

Quit [censored] 8 tabling.

Nightwish · #3 04-13-2005, 02:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
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I have just experienced my first major downswing 8-tabling the party 15/30.

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I got this far and no longer needed to read the rest of your post.

Quit [censored] 8 tabling.

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Why?

bicyclekick · #4 04-13-2005, 02:55 AM

I admit i may have jumped the gun a touch and came across a little rudely....as it's usually 3/6 players that are the ones who need to quit 8 tabling. Maybe this guy can handle it...BUT in general (and more specifically to the low-limit guys) 8 tabling:

-Stints growth because youre acting much more like a robot
-is actually worth less per hour because your decision making isn't as good, as well as your table selection is almost non-existant.
-leads to burn out much faster
-doesn't give you time to reflect about hands after the fact so you can actually learn better poker.
-allows less activity other than poker...for instance it can be tough to read 2+2 or watch tv and 8 table
-makes short-handed (like 2-4handed) games almost not playable. You can do it it's just very suboptimal IMO.

I just think kicking it back to 4 tables, or even 6 for a bit while running bad to evaluate ones game is the best way to go.

BradL · #5 04-13-2005, 03:16 AM

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I just think kicking it back to 4 tables, or even 6 for a bit while running bad to evaluate ones game is the best way to go.

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Agreed. While running bad it is extremely helpful to play 4-6 instead of 6-8 if you feel its your game and not the cards running you over. Even if you do feel its just the cards taking the time to slow down can be relaxing and help to take your mind off the losing streak while you catch up on twoplustwo or days of our lives.

-Brad

elmo · #6 04-13-2005, 03:18 AM

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Stints growth because youre acting much more like a robot

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-doesn't give you time to reflect about hands after the fact so you can actually learn better poker.

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I currently more concerned with maximizing short term (3ish years) EV than truly improving my game. For the time being, I'm just trying to pound out 1BB/hr play.

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-is actually worth less per hour because your decision making isn't as good, as well as your table selection is almost non-existant.

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The table selection point is excellent, and is the next thing I plan on working on. I've done the math... my BB/100 is certainly down, but my BB/hr is up.

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leads to burn out much faster

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In all honesty, I just don't think this is the case for me.

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-allows less activity other than poker...for instance it can be tough to read 2+2 or watch tv and 8 table

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I never really watch TV or read 2+2 while I poker. If the TV is on, it is mostly for background noise.

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makes short-handed (like 2-4handed) games almost not playable. You can do it it's just very suboptimal IMO.

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I agree, and avoid them while 8-tabling.

As someone who has been successfully performing at this level, you are in a different place then I am. I am absolutely positive that you are better at this than I am, but at the same time, I am absolutely sure that playing more than 4-tables is better for my current goals. I can certainly see myself cutting down on tables sometime in the future.

bicyclekick · #7 04-13-2005, 03:45 AM

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I currently more concerned with maximizing short term (3ish years) EV than truly improving my game. For the time being, I'm just trying to pound out 1BB/hr play.

[/ QUOTE ] short term and 3 years are no the same. Maybe you are making a little more in the next week, but I think if you focused on getting better, after 3 years you would have made much more.

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The table selection point is excellent, and is the next thing I plan on working on.

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You can't. Partly cause too much going on and partly cause some of the best tables are those 2-4 handed tables I was talking about.

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I've done the math... my BB/100 is certainly down, but my BB/hr is up.

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That's good.

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leads to burn out much faster

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In all honesty, I just don't think this is the case for me.

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You know yourself better than I know you for sure and if you say so, I believe you. more power to you. Most can't handle it.

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As someone who has been successfully performing at this level, you are in a different place then I am. I am absolutely positive that you are better at this than I am, but at the same time, I am absolutely sure that playing more than 4-tables is better for my current goals. I can certainly see myself cutting down on tables sometime in the future.

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I'm not saying don't play 6 tables, I think 6 is often pretty optimal. Unless you're playing those short handed games and have other stuff going on, then 4 is best. I've also found 4 to be kind of relaxing and more actual fun. But it doesn't sound like you're in this for fun. Anyhow, glad to hear other than this streak it's going well.

mach3 · #8 04-13-2005, 05:46 PM

Elmo - I 8 tabled 15/30 quite successfully for a while. I hit a bad streak and knocked it back down to 4 to regroup. Doing well again. I think BK is right - playing solid poker you can make 2BB/100 and match your 8 table rate of 1BB/100. The 15/30 is tougher then it used to be and robotic, ABC poker doesn't win as much there as it once did.

ps - 200BB isn't an unheard of swing in these games.

Chris Daddy Cool · #9 04-13-2005, 06:58 PM

i never really liked the whole "i'm not trying to get better, i just want to make more money" philosophy becuase if you do try to get better you WILL make more money.

elmo · #10 04-13-2005, 07:47 PM

The thing is, during the school year, I can only play poker on the weekends. My school used to block game servers untill after midnight, but after a virus attack, they block them all the time. I only get to play 2-3 times a week. I feel like I have a better chance of winning 8 x 1 BB than 4 x 2 BB unitll I am able to really focus on my game in get into my zone of sorts. Playing 8 tables, I am able to get into alot more greatly plus EV situations without getting punished for slightly -EV mistakes.

I don't know if my thought process makes sense here... I'll re-read this a little later and see what I think.

-Thanks for all the input