Capped PF QQ, King flops

Yodaman · #1 04-12-2005, 08:15 PM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG+1 caps, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 folds, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

I thought that there might be a chance he has JJ, he just joined the table.

The jack turned and I decided everything he could have beats me.

Pokey · #2 04-12-2005, 08:27 PM

If he's on the draw or the bluff, you gave him no opportunity to get scared. I raise this flop to see where I stand.

A fold tells me he had nothing and was trying to buy a pot.
A call tells me he doesn't have the K or he's got a very weak K and he's scared.
A raise tells me I'm a corpse. I probably SHOULD fold a raise here, but I'm a donk, so I probably make a loose call and then fold the turn bet.

Without the flop raise, you've got no idea what that turn bet means, and you're left either bleeding to the river or folding what might actually be the best hand.

Stu Pidasso · #3 04-12-2005, 08:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop:
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 folds, Button folds, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where you got sand in your vagina.

Stu

PokerProdigy · #4 04-12-2005, 09:47 PM

I say fold the flop.

PokerProdigy · #5 04-12-2005, 09:52 PM

I should explain why I said to fold the flop, this would probably be different if it wasn't capped preflop, but since it was I think you have to give this up on the flop. But if you're NOT gonna fold the flop, then you should raise.

Pokey · #6 04-12-2005, 09:54 PM

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I say fold the flop.

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To me, that seems too tight. I see UTG+1 leading into this one with several hands that don't have you beaten:

AQ/AJ/QJ, depending on how aggressive he is.
AQ/J/T/9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], possibly even lower if he's maniac enough to three-bet it preflop.
QQ(!)
JJ/TT/99

You could easily be dead here, but you can't be sure just because he leads out on this flop. I just can't help but think that his response to a raise tells you much, and helps you to make the right choice here and on the turn.

Pokey · #7 04-12-2005, 09:57 PM

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this would probably be different if it wasn't capped preflop, but since it was I think you have to give this up on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I only agree if you've got a read on him. If you're sure he's not aggressive, then you're spot-on accurate (as I believe I mentioned above). But if I don't know that for sure, I'm willing to invest a speculative small bet to find out for sure.

I guess I'm just realizing that if *I* were UTG+1, I'd be betting it with nearly anything to try to pick up a cheap 17 small bets, or (much more likely) thin the field to players I can hit against.

[ QUOTE ]
But if you're NOT gonna fold the flop, then you should raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely aces: we're totally agreed.

Yodaman · #8 04-12-2005, 09:59 PM

Yeah, I think by calling here I made the worst decision of the 3, call raise fold.

He had just joined the table, and its been my experience that people dont cap preflop in 2/4 with less then JJ or AK, so I didn't really put him on AQ or what not.

Later I saw him cap with AQ and TT though and I think its very possible that just calling him down or raising flop is profitable playing.

RollingRockMike · #9 04-13-2005, 02:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG+1 caps, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 folds, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

I thought that there might be a chance he has JJ, he just joined the table.

The jack turned and I decided everything he could have beats me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Lead the flop or check/fold. You're calling away a small bet with almost no chance to improve, and calling isn't going to scare him into folding. If you insist on playing the flop this way, lead the turn and fold to a raise.

Mike

SmileyEH · #10 04-13-2005, 02:04 AM

I really don't see a problem with this line. There is a place for aggression, but this isn't it. Draw to your 2 outs on the flop, see a turn and you have to pay 2BB to win a 12BB pot. I doubt you are good 1 in 7 here. Fold and move on or just call down if you think hes overly laggy.

-SmileyEH