KK in BB

[marrek]

Hi all

This is a hand from a Party $10-20 game i was in yesterday. I dont' know if any of my post flop play was good. Please feel free to blast my play. Opponents are typically weak, too loose pre, call to much post.

Pre-flop ( Hero is in BB with KK)

UTG +1 limps, MP1 limps, MP2 limps, button limps, SB limps, <font color="red"> Hero raises </font> alll call

Even though i am a dog to the collective field and in bad position, i still think a raise is +EV.

Flop T? 9d 3d - Hero does NOT have a diamond

SB checks, <font color="red"> Hero bets</font> UTG +1 calls, Mp1 raises, MP2 folds, Button cold calls, SB folds, <font color="red"> Hero... </font>

Should i raise here? the Mp raiser is loose and i have seen him raise as little as second pair, weak kicker in early position, but in this case, he has to give me some credit. I think AT, or KT, or a solid draw is most likely for him.

The the button cold caller. He must have something. A solid draw at least?

I might push the UTG caller out if i three bet, but maybe not. Also, the others are definately going to at least call.

Is a 3-bet here mandatory? +EV? even close?

<font color="red">hero flat calls, </font> UTG flat calls

Turn T? 9d 3d - T?

<font color="red">Hero checks... </font>

Should i lead here and fold to a raise? It seems highly likely that at least one player has a ten here.

UTG checks, MP1 bets, Button flat calls, <font color="red"> Hero ?</font>

The MP1 player is screaming " i have a ten". I guess a monster draw is possible, but not as likely. The button keeps calling. He could be drawing or slowplaying a 10, hoping myself and the utg will over call.

I'm getting 12:1 which isn't enough to draw, so this is a 2 bet decision right?

<font color="red"> hero calls </font> utg calls

River is an X

<font color="red"> hero checks</font> UTG checks, MP 1 bets, Button calls, <font color="red"> hero folds </font> utg folds

Thoughts? I don't like calling hte turn, then folding the river, it doesn't seem like the plays are in tune with each other. But what about the flop?

Thanks all

Marrek

[Crafty Veteran]

Hi Marrek

I don't mind smoothcalling the flop if you believe you can get in a checkraise on the turn. 3-betting is the easier and more straightforward line though and I wouldn't disagree with it. Don't worry so much about putting the callers on hands. It's a big pot that is semi-coordinated, most people will call one bet with anything they saw the flop with there. Don't let them freeze you up.

I don't mind checkraising the turn as you can fold to a 3-bet and this is a draw heavy board and there are several opponents. Headsup I'd just call. I'm not yet convinced you are behind despite a not-so-happy card coming off on the turn.

On the river I think you need to call.

[anatta]

Good raise preflop but there shouldn't be much question with this. Thinking of just the set value, while 5 opponents is less than the immediate odds for flopping a set or better, building a big pot that 5 opponents are tied into is in itself one reason to raise. KK will win unimproved quite a bit, too. Think of good flops like T44r where your opponents are drawing very slim. I think a lot of times the "fair share" argument ("I win more than my fair share so I must raise preflop") is often too simpistic and overlooks creative ways to make more money or protect your hand postflop, especially from the blinds. HOWEVER, this certainly doesn't apply here. Good raise.

I like a three-bet on the flop. As you say, the raise might force UTG out. Even if your opponets have enough outs so that you are a dog vs the field (i.e. str8 draw, flush, and pair), getting 3:1 (if all call) is still profitable. Its similar to raising for value when YOU have the flush draw on the flop in a multiway pot. A flush is 2:1 against hitting, but you get value with multiple callers. Granted, if you knew they had this many outs, and knew the turn would get bet (no guarentee as MP flop raiser could easily be drawing and check hoping for free card), you could wait and check-raise a safe turn when you have a much bigger edge, but you don't know, so I'd three-bet and bet the turn. (The button cold caller "must have something"?? He is very likely drawing, this is basic hand reading).

I don't want to get into the turn or river the way you played it, but the river fold is pretty bad.

[bernie]

Call the flop raise.

Bet out or c/r the turn. Fold to a raise.

b