99 in MP after a semi-loose utg raise and cap... skip 2nd paragraph

w_alloy · #1 04-12-2005, 06:49 AM

Hey all, I have been reading this forumn for months, quite diligently recently, but I just started playing a week ago and hence never had a reason to post untill tonight.

Since I plan to post here frequently I'll give a short personal poker history first, if you dont wanna read it (I dont blame you) skip the rest of this paragraph. I've been watching poker on TV and loving it for a few years, and so I recently got some friends to start a regular home game a few months ago. I quickly fell in love and started reading books, then online message boards. I soon realized if i got good quickly i could avoid getting a real summer job (something I've dreaded) by making money online. With the stongest of motivators, indolence, I dedicated my off hours to improving my non-existent poker skills. I read Holdem Poker for Advanded Players about 5 times (an average, I skipped around a lot). I read the limit section of SS2 an equal amount. With that knoweledge, plus what I've gleaned from here, I considered myself ready enough to get some hands under my belt. I bought pt and started playing party 2/4 last week, moving up to 4 tables my second day, and am now up 5 BB/100 hands (I know it wont last) after a little over 6k hands.

Im still having problems though, and am not sure how to deal with certain scenarios I have never encountered. This is one of those. Villian is 60/16/1.00 after about 20 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 4 folds, Hero 3-bets, 4 folds, UTG caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

I think I played this wrong, I'd like to think it was because I am still getting used to 4 tables and just got aces at another table (seriously), but I don't know exactly what I should have done. I think I tend to make mistakes against people with fishy stats by over-adjusting my play. I think my play pre-flop was ok, but after it was 4 bet, i dont think i can call down the with that hand with a K hitting.

I'm getting verbose (nervous 1st post?), basically what i want to know is, should I have folded the flop or turn if at all? I think it should have been the flop, but that seems so weak with those pot odds... but its still my choice because of my horrible reverse implied odds.

cookie · #2 04-12-2005, 07:02 AM

Im a noob so this can be wrong, but I would have raised the flop and folded to a reraise. Bet the turn if checked to, and hoped for a free showdown on the river. But chances are pretty good that you are behind, but he might bet a flush draw or something like that.

Jack Bauer · #3 04-12-2005, 07:04 AM

i do not consider it standard to 3-bet an utg raise with 99. i see no reason to call the flop. you only beat him if hes an idiot

20 hands is not enough of a sample to assume he is that aggressive

admiralfluff · #4 04-12-2005, 07:12 AM

The pot is large on the flop, but your effective odds for the rest of the hand are around 3:1 if you have to pay on every street, which ain't great. If he would cap HU with 2 big cards that didn't hit this flop, he will improve by the river far more than you will if you are ahead. 20 hands is not enough for a meaningful read. Unless you've seen him do anything that would specifically indicate that you have a reasonable chance of being ahead here (you've only seen him raise 3 times, so this is unlikely), I think you can let this go on the flop. If you want to continue, raise the flop.

BUY AND READ SMALL STAKES HOLDEM.

w_alloy · #5 04-12-2005, 07:12 AM

I should have posted i saw him raise utg+1 last orbit with A9o and showed down against heavy action from a set after an ace hit on the flop.

I think this is easily reason enough for the isolation re-raise to be correct.

w_alloy · #6 04-12-2005, 07:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
BUY AND READ SMALL STAKES HOLDEM.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think this is necessary given that i have read and understand completely the 2 books I listed? Not doubting asking an honest question.

And sorry for wasting your time by not putting that information (what i saw him do last orbit) in the original post, I meant to but forgot.

Jack Bauer · #7 04-12-2005, 07:19 AM

yes, it is

not enough for a flop call. at least not without the 9c. bd flush draw and its debateable. youre drawing to 2 outs too often here and hes drawing very live too often when youre ahead to make up for your poor effective odds

Jack Bauer · #8 04-12-2005, 07:22 AM

hpfap is a fantastic book with some great plays in it but it does not stress pot equity like ssh does. pumping valuable hands preflop is a key to beating 2/4 for a good rate.

for general guidelines like preflop i would not pay as much attention to hpfap. i have read the ss2 lhe chapter and my only question is when was the last time jennifer harman played 15/30. she offers some solid advice but very very tight. you can get away with playing a lot hands at 2/4.

but yes, reading ssh is a necessity

unimproved · #9 04-12-2005, 07:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BUY AND READ SMALL STAKES HOLDEM.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think this is necessary given that i have read and understand completely the 2 books I listed? Not doubting asking an honest question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. SSHE is geared specifically towards the types of games you will be playing in at these limits; HPFAP is more for games where the average opponent is at least a capable player. Also, just because you read one book and a bit of another one, does not mean you should assume you now need study no more.

admiralfluff · #10 04-12-2005, 07:29 AM

I have not read SS2, but I can confidently say yes. HPFAP is geared towards higher limits, where your opponents are somewhat knowledgeable. The strategy presented in SSHE is all about beating games with bad player. Many here consider it their bible. I think you should also read Theory of Poker some time soon.

Given your previous orbit read, the isolation raise is easy. When he caps you're in a tough spot. He may be a LAG who is likely to cap anything he raises with HU, but you can't know from 20 hands.

I say fold the flop, and wait to find out if he's a maniac before making a stand.