2+2's turned me lag

wrto4556 · #1 04-12-2005, 12:40 AM

I was reading a post by Clarmeister where he check/raised the turn with an UI AK and wins the hand. This isn't even close but it's what I had in mind while doing it.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.

River: (9.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

Anyone like it, or am I really turning LAG?

brettbrettr · #2 04-12-2005, 12:45 AM

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I was reading a post by Clarmeister where he check/raised the turn with an UI AK and wins the hand. This isn't even close but it's what I had in mind while doing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

He did not do it HU. He did it to force out a mid PP or some other such hand he thought had him beat so he could showdown with the third player.

Reads on button? If you think you're hand is good on the turn then I think you have to bet the river, no? River seems to be a great, great card for you.

wrto4556 · #3 04-12-2005, 12:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was reading a post by Clarmeister where he check/raised the turn with an UI AK and wins the hand. This isn't even close but it's what I had in mind while doing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

He did not do it HU. He did it to force out a mid PP or some other such hand he thought had him beat so he could showdown with the third player.

Reads on button? If you think you're hand is good on the turn then I think you have to bet the river, no? River seems to be a great, great card for you.

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Please tell me you have a link to that post. I read it once and then lost it.

Anyway, what's he calling with ont the river that I have beat? 88 or 77...

Btw, Button was 30/8/2 ish.

bobbyi · #4 04-12-2005, 01:01 AM

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If you think you're hand is good on the turn then I think you have to bet the river, no? River seems to be a great, great card for you.

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What possible hand do you see him paying off with? He's not calling with his busted diamonds. Let him bet it.

wrto4556 · #5 04-12-2005, 01:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you think you're hand is good on the turn then I think you have to bet the river, no? River seems to be a great, great card for you.

[/ QUOTE ]
What possible hand do you see him paying off with? He's not calling with his busted diamonds. Let him bet it.

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So check/raising this turn wasn't too much?

afk · #6 04-12-2005, 01:31 AM

You haven't even posted a read on your opponent. Did you have one? I would think a play like this is pretty read-dependant.

wrto4556 · #7 04-12-2005, 01:34 AM

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Button was 30/8/2 ish.

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Nate tha' Great · #8 04-12-2005, 02:06 AM

This doesn't make too much sense to me without some quite specific read, like he wouldn't raise top pair on the flop. But a pair of jacks is usually a vulernable enough hand that most opponents will raise it right away, even chronic slowplayers.

One problem is that check-raising necessitates checking, and I'm not sure that you want to check this turn in the event that he elects to take a free card with a flush draw.

Another problem is that check-raising and folding to a 3-bet (which you pretty much have to do) costs the same as calling down, but doesn't get you to a showdown.

These sorts of hands are tricky but the check-raise ranks pretty far down on my list of ways to play them.

Nate tha' Great · #9 04-12-2005, 02:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you think you're hand is good on the turn then I think you have to bet the river, no? River seems to be a great, great card for you.

[/ QUOTE ]
What possible hand do you see him paying off with? He's not calling with his busted diamonds. Let him bet it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not so sure. He'll get called down by any pair, and the board pairing like that on the river might be all the inducement a bad player needs to look him up with ace-high.

On the other hand, that card will lead to some river bluffs, enough that I think bet-fold is probably not a good plan against a lot of opponents. I can tell you that I have a pretty strong instinct to bet-call on that river if this is 15/30, but I don't know about here.

wrto4556 · #10 04-12-2005, 02:24 AM

Nate,

I can fold to the turn 3-bet (if it happens) and not think twice. But what you said about checking and him checking behind me if he's on a flush draw makes alot of sense. If I stop and go, how likely do you think it is for someone to raise again without a hand that beats me? I think even a jack would slowdown sometimes.

See, what I was thinking is this. If I go into call down mode I lose 2 BB. If I stop and go I get 1-2 BB when im ahead. If I fold to a raise on the turn I only lose one, and when he doesn't raise I check/call the river. (Give him a chance to bluff). But if I check raise the turn, I win 2BB when he's drawing and still lose 2BB when i'm beat. If I check raise and he has a jack, he will probably check behind me on the river and when he has a set he 3-bets me.

I win more when im ahead and lose the same when im behind, no?