Pair higher than middle pair hands oop

parappa · #1 04-11-2005, 09:32 AM

I can never figure out what to do out of position here. I bet out on the flop because my hand might be best. Should I refrain from betting into a field this big?

The problem on hands like this generally is that when I get a couple of callers, I'm pretty sure that someone has a queen, but I don't like check/folding, so I usually bet again. I think that someone has top pair in this circumstance often enough that I'm losing money here. Should I check/call the turn?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP1 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

deepsquat · #2 04-11-2005, 09:44 AM

well played on all streets except id bet the river.

You cant give someone credit for a queen just cos you are being called down. You will win more than your fair share in this spot.

MrWookie47 · #3 04-11-2005, 10:30 AM

Well played preflop, flop, and turn. Bet the river. You'll be called by tens, fours, or even less.

kiddj · #4 04-11-2005, 10:37 AM

Bet the turn. Bet the river.

On the flop, your major concern is the Q. The probability that one of your 2 remaining opponents has a Q is about 25%. (I'm assuming the flop folder did not have one.) No one showed any aggression, so your hand is probably good. If one of them shows down some Qx hand (or some other runner runner draw), add them to your buddy list.

@bsolute_luck · #5 04-11-2005, 11:01 AM

parappa: i agree i hate these hands because you pretty much have to bet and, yes, it seems most of the time someone is calling along with the Q.

i think you played it well, from your post it sounds like someone has the queen. you should bet out because even if someone has the queen, you have outs for a straight and trips. same with the turn.

as you can see, most people say bet the river. i think you could debate. but you're betting 1 to gain a possible 3, and you're only losing 1 if you're beat. even if you're raised: you only lose 2, but you have to try for the 3. i think this means it's still +EV to bet the river IMHO.

davelin · #6 04-11-2005, 11:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
but you're betting 1 to gain a possible 3

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting 1 to gain a possible two.

GrunchCan · #7 04-11-2005, 11:11 AM

Bet this river. Bet your marginal hands in to loose passive opponents.

parappa · #8 04-11-2005, 11:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet this river. Bet your marginal hands in to loose passive opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

To expand a bit, Grunch, what if the callers are, say TP-P? Is there a point at which you'll slow down on a read that your opponent probably has you beaten but is to timid to raise? Or will you just bet it all the way down against that guy as well, knowing that it's unlikely to cost you an extra bet?

MrWookie47 · #9 04-11-2005, 11:18 AM

Good point. Against LPP's (typical party), you shouldn't even think twice about betting this. If you had a read that they were tight and wouldn't call down with < TP, then you might be more justified in checking.

I kinda doubt that you'd be posting this hand if you were not shown the queen, but don't let the results fool you.

benkath1 · #10 04-11-2005, 11:24 AM

*G post.

Any reads?

I would play this hand the same way. Usually in this situation I'll see a weak Q that shouldn't be in the hand anyway.

Nice hand.

Ben