Long Term +EV

[TazQ]

2 tabling or 8 tabling? This is assuming the player's goal is to eventually make a living playing live, high limit poker.

Who will reach their goal first of being a consistant winner at 100-200 or higher? The 2 tabler or 8 tabler?

I used to think 8 tabling sh tables was the way to go, but from my own experience (burnout, slow progression in skill, reads) I'm leaning towards 2 tabling now. Not to mention it's a hell of a lot funner and doesn't feel like a grind.

[ckessel]

3 or 4 tables is my max. It's just not fun after that, it feels frantic. Not something I could keepup for hours and enjoy. At 2 tables I can catch on to some people's patterns, check stats on people, and still mostly keep up with Survivor and chat with my wife.

I'll run 3 tables on nights I feel extra-sharp since I do tend to have other distractions around me.

I run 4 when I'm in full poker mode, 100% concentration on the games. Even then it's sometimes hard to have enough time to check stats on people on key hands.

Then again, my goal isn't to 8-table 2/4 for a living. It's to eventually move up and just run a table or two at higher stakes where I could choose to do it or not for a living. A goal that's probably far away and may never be attained, but one that keeps me motivated far more than the thought of 8-tabling for 6 hours a day.

[Perseus]

I agree, though i am beginning to 6 table 2/4 without that frantic feeling. But when i move up I am planning to cut down on tables. I just don't know how people can 8 table the 6max games for hours and hours a day...

[threeonefour]

sorry if i am hijacking the post but i was wondering if people read +EV as "positive expectation."

if so, the title of your post should be MaxEV since both 2 tabling and 8 tabling are/can be +EV. +EV is a very very poor metric for making decisions. Usually its best to go with a MaxEV, MaxiMin(maximizing the minimum payout), or MaxiMax(maxing the max payout) approach

[Jeff W]

[Hijack]Your post is unnecessary. Always assume +EV to mean maximum EV. If you make a decision that yields a worse expectation that the maximum EV, then that decision is -EV. Choice of scale is arbitrary. Anyone on the forums who doesn't understand this would be more confused by your explanation anyway.

Now lets end this argument and give TazQ's post its just due, because it is an important topic.[/End Hijack]

[Jeff W]

Taz,

I play the 10/20 6-max and I have 4-tabled since I began playing limit poker in September. I have decided to move down to 2 tables to improve my reading ability and hone my strategic and tactical chops.

I do not plan to make a living playing live high stakes limit poker. I do plan to improve enough to beat high stakes games online, though these won't necessarily be my bread and butter.

I would like to hear the thoughts of high-stakes 2+2 players like stoxtrader, James282, nikla, bicyclekick, etc. Perhaps you could cross post this to the mid-high stakes forum to get better responses.

[threeonefour]

[ QUOTE ]
[Hijack]Your post is unnecessary. Always assume +EV to mean maximum EV. If you make a decision that yields a worse expectation that the maximum EV, then that decision is -EV. Choice of scale is arbitrary. Anyone on the forums who doesn't understand this would be more confused by your explanation anyway.

Now lets end this argument and give TazQ's post its just due, because it is an important topic.[/End Hijack]

[/ QUOTE ]



if this were true then the following statements would be true.

El diablo is -EV at 2/4

Doyle Brunson is -EV play 15/30 at party

David Sklansky is -EV at poker tournaments

90%+ of all otherwise profitable poker players are -EV when it comes to tournaments.

pushing AA in preflop in the first round of WSOP is -EV


(I am not saying that you are wrong, but i know for a fact that +EV is very often not regarded as MaxEV on these forums)

[Jim T]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[Hijack]Your post is unnecessary. Always assume +EV to mean maximum EV. If you make a decision that yields a worse expectation that the maximum EV, then that decision is -EV. Choice of scale is arbitrary. Anyone on the forums who doesn't understand this would be more confused by your explanation anyway.

Now lets end this argument and give TazQ's post its just due, because it is an important topic.[/End Hijack]

[/ QUOTE ]



if this were true then the following statements would be true.

El diablo is -EV at 2/4

Doyle Brunson is -EV play 15/30 at party

David Sklansky is -EV at poker tournaments

90%+ of all otherwise profitable poker players are -EV when it comes to tournaments.

pushing AA in preflop in the first round of WSOP is -EV


(I am not saying that you are wrong, but i know for a fact that +EV is very often not regarded as MaxEV on these forums)

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeez, how about the idea that most people on this board are intelligent enough to tell the most appropriate definition to use for +EV from the content of the post.

[DCWGaming]

It really depends on your learning style and ability to cope with a bunch of situations at once.
Personally, I learn faster with more tables. Everything is on autopilot, but I pick 1 hand or situation that I need to work on, and pay extra attention when that situation comes up. Since You're on many tables at a time, that situation will come up much more often than if you were just 2 tabling, and you can learn to play that situation better.

More hands per hour is +EV, but if you dont know how to cope with the fast decision making required, you wont learn enough to move up.

[fyodor]

I play 5/10 6max and had been 4 tabling for quite awhile. My winrate wasn't anywhere near what I would like it to be and I want to eventually move up in limits.

I changed my vpip to a number I think more appropriate for 6max and the winrate went up a bit but still not enough.

I dropped down to 2 tables and my winrate (over a small sample) has skyrocketed. I am making WAY better decisions (although if I get distracted I can still mess up)

For now, for me, I think 2 tables is the way to go. When I have a huge sample and I feel I can make those good decsions a little quicker, I will try 3 and then 4 tables again.

Screw the rakeback; I'd rather play better poker.