1st shot at UB 10-25

[aggie]

I've taken some time off from high limit poker lately as I lost the majority of my bankroll playing badly (over the course of several months). Anyway, I won an ultimate bet tourney this weekend so I decided to take a few shots at UB10-25 (many in this forum are licking their lips saying "yum yum")...

Here are a few of the interesting hands:

Hand 1
Early position limper (no real read but seems solid), i raise from MP with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]....Only the limper calls....I have $3300 and villian has me covered

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
check, i bet $200, call

Turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] check, check (Is this Okay?)

River:6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] villian bets $200 and I call.
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Hand 2

4 limpers, and i check with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the small blind.

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
check, I bet $125, 1st limper($1765) calls, everybody else folds...I have villian covered (do you guys like my bet here?)

Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I bet $250, villian calls

River: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] I bet $425

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Hand 3 7-handed

Cutoff-1 opens for $75, cuttoff calls, I call on button with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and have villian covered

Villian bought in for $1500 and has played weak tight for about an hour. All of a sudden he seems to be on a rush...He doubled through last hand with a small set and now has $2400

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] villian bets $190, fold, I raise to $450, villian goes all in and i call? (massive overbet, what should i have done?)

__________________________________________________ __________

Any feedback on these hands would be appreciated!

[ShortySaurus]

i like the first hand....not sure about the second....and i like the third minus the preflop call

[bobby rooney]

I think in Hand 1 you have to bet that turn card because of the situation it puts you in on the river. He bets 200 and you have no way of knowing whether he just backdoored you or just bet because you dogged it on the turn. My guess is that you called the river and probably took down the pot and he showed you a weaker kicker since I wouldn't necessarily think that river helped him. However, there is no real way to know, especially playing online.

Hand 2 is dangerous. I'm not really sure I would bet the flop there because of it being a multiway unraised pot, basically anyone could have anything. That smooth call on the flop is very worrisome because if somebody flopped a made flush, that is the play they would likely make. The flat call on the turn is a little weird because a made hand would want to raise to charge the lone A (which you have) to draw to the flush. My only guess as to what hand your opponent has is that he has a made hand that he's not too sure about and thus played very passively rather than to raise and find out if it was good and charge you to draw. I'm interested to what he had, my guess is a badly played two pair.

[mgsimpleton]

[ QUOTE ]
I think in Hand 1 you have to bet that turn card because of the situation it puts you in on the river. He bets 200 and you have no way of knowing whether he just backdoored you or just bet because you dogged it on the turn. My guess is that you called the river and probably took down the pot and he showed you a weaker kicker since I wouldn't necessarily think that river helped him. However, there is no real way to know, especially playing online.

[/ QUOTE ]

i like betting the turn too then folding to a raise, usually... most of the time in this situation you don't luck out with some weak ass bet on the river... often either a set or a bluff will bet huge once you check behind and then you're screwed.

in hand 2 - do you think you are up against a set or two pair and by the river you are trying to push him off? i think this depends a lot on table image - if your image is tight and villain knows it, i think it's a good play, if not i don't think it will work most of the time so i don't really like it.

hand 3 i think eet is good. many times he will have TJ or QJ of spades and other times AA and other times a set. i am not good enough to lay this down, honestly but maybe others feel differently.

edit - on hand one actually, if he is a habitual bluffer or you have a good read, check behind is good to extract a little more... but be prepared for a tougher river decision, usually...

[aggie]

[ QUOTE ]
I think in Hand 1 you have to bet that turn card

[/ QUOTE ]

Sidenote - 1 month ago, i would have definitely bet this turn, but because of this forum bells were ringing in my head about pot control (as the stacks were fairly deep)....Don't know if this was logical thinking, but if it wasn't, this forum is to blame! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (that flyn guy in particular)

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think in Hand 1 you have to bet that turn card

[/ QUOTE ]

Sidenote - 1 month ago, i would have definitely bet this turn, but because of this forum bells were ringing in my head about pot control (as the stacks were fairly deep)....Don't know if this was logical thinking, but if it wasn't, this forum is to blame! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (that flyn guy in particular)

[/ QUOTE ]

fwiw (maybe im wrong here) but i would check that turn in that situation, too, on hand 1

hand 2 i just dont like at all. at all.

the flop bet doesn't seem great as it's a marginal draw (the gutdraw doesn't exactly make you feel warm + fuzzy/the ace can't be an out if you're called on thsi flop - and I can't imagine villains drawing as you have the A trump and K / Q are out there...) and you bet into 4 opponents.

I hope it wokred out for you but things just spiral poorly thence onward.


hand 3, also, Iwould be praying he's overplaying AK AA or some spade/gutdraw combination (as someone else mentioned) I dont play those limits, so these are just my outloud thoughts, but these players dont overplay one pair hands semi-deep. or atleast not typically.

EDIT: Also, you said he was weak tight. And he bought in short. So maybe he wasn't good. So maybe he was in fact overplaying a hand you beat.

Lots of maybes though - if he's weak tight is that more of an argument for him fastplaying KKK trying to make sure he's "not drawn out" ?

[bobby rooney]

Hand 3 I think you have to call the allin unless you are really sure about your tight weak read. Especially with the spades out there, there is no way to know whether he has a pair+flushdraw combo or a set, pocket rockets, or even just AK without the draw (and he's playing aggressive because he thinks you are getting frisky with a draw). The only way not to lose your money on that setup is to fold the K9s preflop. In a raised pot, for the most part you are going to play top two EXACTLY like a set since the only hands ahead are sets.

This all being said, I recently lost over two thirds of my stack in the early stages of a major tourney in this EXACT situation. It still bugs me because I KNEW she had a set, but with all the possible draws out there, to fold was just bad poker unless I was stone cold certain about the read. Anyway, I think if you lost your entire stack to the top two, that's probably just what was meant to be.

[Matt Flynn]

aggie,

if you're playing 10-25 and ain't rich, you're doing fine.

first hand's ok by me. not much to fear draw-wise so pot control takes precedence against a non-maniac.

second hand: given that you got to the river a 40-50% looks-like-a-milk-bet blocking bet is very reasonable against an aggressive opponent. consider the hand if you check the flop.

third hand: not easy there but against an aggressive opponent you have to grit your teeth and call. against a tight opponent you may be able to fold, but the default is call. often you will be looking at a flush draw with the ace or AK. these hands are more likely than KK or 99 by far. helps to know if he raises to $75 with small pocket pairs as that reduces likelihood of the three additional hands that beat you. sometimes you just gotta go broke.

caveat: i took a sleeping pill and had a glass of wine, so i reserve the right to retract all of this tomorrow when someone corrects me.

matt

matt

[bobby rooney]

Hmmm, I sometimes play TPTK a little more aggressively than people do here. I understand the idea of keeping the pot small in a deepstacked situation, but the possible heart draw makes me want to bet this turn. Also, if you get raised on the turn, against many players you can safely assume you are beat.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, I sometimes play TPTK a little more aggressively than people do here. I understand the idea of keeping the pot small in a deepstacked situation, but the possible heart draw makes me want to bet this turn. Also, if you get raised on the turn, against many players you can safely assume you are beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

The heart draw came in via backdoor

Is he really callig the flop with a bdflush draw? doubtful, im not worried about hearts.

flynn is very right that pot control is so much more important than pot protection here. the flop is fairly drawless;what could he have? If you're ahead he has ~4 outs (unless he did pick up the back door draw) and if you're behind you're either dead or 3 / 2 outs.

this is (depending on board) my standard with TPTK, and although I imagine the game changes a bit the higher you go, this line seems to make the most sense.