Passively played preflop and on the flop

[DontRaisePlz]

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds.


PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Both loose/passive tables. Which hand was more correctly played than the other? Were either hands played optimally?

[Baseballer02]

Hand 1 you're allowing 5 other players to chase draws far too cheaply.

[eniven]

I think I would raise both. Especially the second one.

[flopwell]

[ QUOTE ]
Both loose/passive tables. Which hand was more correctly played than the other? Were either hands played optimally?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1 raise PF, Raise flop
Hand 2 ditto

[jookiebrown]

I raise both of these preflop without hesitation. They are good hands and they need you to value them. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I can also recall a couple of times that flops like hand one's hit one of the blinds pretty hard when they would have folded preflop. You aren't going to pare the field very often with a preflop raise from the button but it gets value bets in the pot and will often get rid of the blinds.

I also raise them both on the flop. With tpgk in both i have to tax the draws and the folks that flopped second pair.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
Which hand was more correctly played than the other?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that should be; which hand was played worse than the other?

Hard to call. Hand 1, you're letting them chase on a draw heavy flop. Hand 2, you limped on the button with AQ.

This is really bad, dude. Looks like playing on a passive table warped your brain.

[jaxUp]

Redefine your game preflop and postflop if you make these plays consistently (or semi-consistently). Plays like this should not be happening.

[davelin]

Your pre-flop play is pretty bad in both cases, like really bad. Your flop lines are at least considerable given that you can't really protect your hand you may be able to get a little more value on the turn.

Given that, I think raising the flop is the right play here too.

[JerseyDrake]

A raise PF on both hands is called for - premium hand on the button in unraised pot - raise!

I would also want to raise both of these flops. Get those bets in while you have the best hand.

Look at the second hand: Once the turn comes if you improve (say another Q or even an Ace) people will start to fold out. If you get a blank on the turn same thing. A raise on the flop likely gets 4 more small bets in the pot with you (very likely) holding the best hand.

[DontRaisePlz]

What's interesting about these hands is that that HEFAP advocates limping on the button with a big offsuit hand (loose games) in order to induce more postflop mistakes. I fabricated the 2nd second hand because AQo was the hand exemplified in the book.

Since I didn't think the players were limping in 43o or J2o, and moreso 75s, K8o, and 96s, I decided to just call KQo and see what happens. There comes a point where raising KQo any position with several limpers (who are loose but not dreadfully loose) just isn't (as) profitable and I'd like to know WHEN that is. Maybe Party Poker is unbelievably horrible and I'm really missing out on these games where you just jam every good hand without second thought.