heads up turn play

[marching_on_together]

Heads up against a reasonable player, tight aggro

folded to CO who raises BB, SB fold hero calls with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

flop 4.5 (SB) comes A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

hero checks Co bets hero calls

Turn 9 (3.25 BB) [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

hero checks co bets hero raises

people like or hate?

[Evan]

I'd like a flop check raise better. It costs you much less to find out he has A5.

[JoshuaD]

I definitely like a flop check-raise here. If I understand the preflop action -- it's folded to a TAG in CO who raises your BB -- I'm 3-betting preflop.

[marching_on_together]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like a flop check raise better. It costs you much less to find out he has A5.

[/ QUOTE ]

raising on the flop is fine i agree but raising on the turn has some benefits against a good (but not exceptional) player.
He's raising with a wide range of hands here preflop some which i'm ahead of some which i'm behind.

One disadvantage of raising the flop is that people don't take it that seriously if he has a PP it's probably not going to get him to fold it he may even 3-bet. A follow up turn bet might fold out some lower PP but probably not higher PPs.

Waiting to the turn gives me greater fold equity as it is how i often might play an Ace, raising the turn rather than the flop makes it more likely villian will put me on a made hand. Raising the turn wins me the hand outright more often than a flop raise, if called i have a good number of outs to win this hand. There is also a reasonable chance i'm ahead anyway here but i would be quiet happy to fold out a worse hand here who has 4-6 outs against me.

I sometimes raise the flop here but i think rasinfg the turn occasionaly is decent alternative.

You have to vary your play heads up against decent players.

[marching_on_together]

[ QUOTE ]
I definitely like a flop check-raise here. If I understand the preflop action -- it's folded to a TAG in CO who raises your BB -- I'm 3-betting preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes i would too sometimes, however it makes the CO more commited to this pot which makes it harder to win without the best hand. Personally i think it's fine to 3-bet or call with this sometimes in the SB then it's a definate 3 bet

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
Waiting to the turn gives me greater fold equity

[/ QUOTE ]
Waiting for the turn would have to give you higher folding equity jsut to be equally as good as doing it on the flop due to the smaller pot relative to the bet and fewer chances for you to draw to one of your outs.

[ QUOTE ]
You have to vary your play heads up against decent players.

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course, but I think that the more common line would be a better response than, "It depends," which it does.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Heads up against a reasonable player, tight aggro

folded to CO who raises BB, SB fold hero calls with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

flop 4.5 (SB) comes A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

hero checks Co bets hero calls

Turn 9 (3.25 BB) [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

hero checks co bets hero raises

people like or hate?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO you are teetering on the edge of FPS. That said, this move is good if you know your opponent REALLY well.

[marching_on_together]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Heads up against a reasonable player, tight aggro

folded to CO who raises BB, SB fold hero calls with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

flop 4.5 (SB) comes A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

hero checks Co bets hero calls

Turn 9 (3.25 BB) [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

hero checks co bets hero raises

people like or hate?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO you are teetering on the edge of FPS. That said, this move is good if you know your opponent REALLY well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you have to know the opponent that well here, ok you don't want to do this against an opponent who never lays down any kind of hand or who 3-bets with a wide range of hands but if i saw something like 16/8/2 stats over 50 or so hands i think this move has some merit from time to time.

[marching_on_together]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Waiting to the turn gives me greater fold equity

[/ QUOTE ]
Waiting for the turn would have to give you higher folding equity jsut to be equally as good as doing it on the flop due to the smaller pot relative to the bet and fewer chances for you to draw to one of your outs.

[ QUOTE ]
You have to vary your play heads up against decent players.

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course, but I think that the more common line would be a better response than, "It depends," which it does.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the flop raise has little fold equity against this type of opponent you will nearly always have to follow this up with a turn bet (which is fine in this case) to see any kind of reward. I think the turn raise wins this pot much more often than a flop raise if my opponent has a PP, if the flop was not 2 suited this difference would be less. With the two suited flop my opponent will consider that i'm on a flush draw and be more inclined to still consider his hand good. It 's hard for a decent player to call the turn raise without an ace or flush draw.

The turn raise wins this pot a large % of the time, when it doesn't i still have a lot of outs.

[marching_on_together]

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO you are teetering on the edge of FPS.

[/ QUOTE ]

In hands with multiple opponents ABC poker normally works well, in head up situations i think your play should be more fancy especially against reasonable players.