Floormen, managers, dealers: Want to be an expert witness? (long)

[youtalkfunny]

I got fired last month from my job as a poker dealer. Here's what happened (quoted from an OOT thread about it):

It's 5 AM, and there's a three-handed 1-2 NLHE game going.

Anyways, as soon as I sit down to deal this game, the players ask me if I'm aware of the reduced rake (the preceding dealer should have told me, but he didn't). I called the floorman before I dealt the first card, and he confirmed that the rake had been reduced to $1 max.

After 30 minutes, I was pushed out of that game by Dealer X. I told him about the $1 rake, and went on about my business.

The next day, I found out that Dealer X had been fired. The story was that the other players suggested to him that if he didn't take a rake, they would tip him the $1 instead. Again, that was the gossip--I have no first-hand knowledge of WHAT happened at that table after I left. The only thing I know for sure was that Dealer X was fired, and it pertained to that NL game.

My supervisor asked me if I had relayed the instructions about the reduced rake to Dealer X. I had. "What exactly did you tell him?" I told him, "One dollar rake, X," and he acknowledged that he heard and understood me by repeating, "One dollar rake." My supervisor asked me if I would be willing to sign a statement affirming all this if asked to do so, and I had no problem with that, but they never asked me for a written statement.

A few days later, I was told to report to the Investigations section of the Security office, to be interviewed by an investigator looking into this situation. I thought it was pretty crummy of them to ask a guy to work from 9 PM to 5 AM, then return at 10 AM for a conversation. But I understood the gravity of the situation, and being a good company man, I went home after work and stayed up all morning so that I would not miss my 10 AM appointment.

The investigator asked me about that NL game. He got me to say that I was a good dealer, not some inexperienced break-in, but someone who is familiar with all the procedures to be followed. He asked me what the rake should have been in that game. He asked me if I had been made the same offer (tips in exchange for no rake), and I told him truthfully that I hadn't. He asked me if I knew any of the players, and I replied that I had never seen any of them before.

He then read to me the section of the dealer handbook that says the dealer is not to make any decisions about reducing the rake, that only the floorman can make that decision. I thought it was funny that he read that to me, because I had just finished saying it at least three times, when explaining poker procedures to him.

His tone then changed, and he triumphantly sprang his little trap: "What if I told you that we have you on videotape, NOT taking the rake on three separate hands? At 4:32 AM, 4:41 AM, and 4:53 AM? What would you say about that?" He asked it like he was daring me to deny it.

I shrugged. I was just told I made $3 worth of errors. "I don't dispute that could've happened."

"Why would you not take the rake those hands? Were you hoping to get better tips?"

At this point, I still didn't realize that I'm the target of his investigation. "God, no," I replied. "The tips were HORRIBLE at that table. I didn't make any money off of those guys."

"Then why didn't you take the rake from those pots? Explain that."

"Sloppy dealing. Plain and simple. It was 5 AM, I was tired."

I didn't add that this game was near the end of another 8-table push. If I knew I was on trial, and had time to prepare a proper defense (instead of this trial by ambush), this evidence would certainly have been submitted.

Poker dealers are usually given a break every hour or two, because the job requires such intense concentration that no one can keep it up for hours at a time. On this night, I started at 9 PM; got a break around 1 AM; and didn't get another until I went home at around 6 AM. OF COURSE my concentration was lagging after 4:30. But I didn't make what I would consider to be any major errors--I still did a pretty good job, IMO. I didn't over-rake a single pot (poker dealers are taught that over-raking is a far more serious offense than under-raking, because the Gaming Commission doesn't like over-raking, but no one worries about a dollar or two getting missed).

(Neither of the preceding italicized paragraphs was part of my conversation with the investigator.)

The investigator accepted my answer. He then asked me to write out a statement, detailing our conversation that I just described above. I wrote it out, signed it, and when I was finished, the poker manager came in with the termination paperwork, which included checkmarks in the boxes next to "Failure to follow company procedure" and "Dishonesty". My photo was taken, and I was 86'd from the boat.

I'm almost 40 years old. I've never been fired in my adult life. I had never been accused of stealing before.

I filed for Unemployment. They asked me why I was fired, and I told them it was over a $3 error. I was told that they would investigate my dismissal, and if they determined that I wasn't doing anything flagrant like stealing, I would be eligible for Unemployment benefits.

Thursday, I got a letter saying that my claim for Unemployment benefits was denied. The letter said they spoke to the casino, and determined that I was fired for "misconduct". The letter said I could request a hearing to appeal the decision. I did that today (Friday).

I found the guy who arbitrates those hearings. I told him that I wanted to submit testimony from people in the poker business that errors like forgetting to take the rake are not uncommon; are almost never grounds for firing; and are more likely to happen when the dealer doesn't get any breaks.

I asked if my witnesses had to appear personally, or if a written statement would be admissible. He said a letter would be fine. I asked if it would be necessary to notorize the letters, and he said no, that would not be necessary.

So if you're an EXPERIENCED floorman, dealer, or manager, here is your chance to take the stand! With no threat of cross-examination!

I need a few of you guys and gals to whip up a simple letter, stating:

--that it is customary to give poker dealers a break every hour or two, because dealing poker takes a lot of concentration--so much that no one can maintain it for hours at a time. Tired dealers, who don't get breaks, are more likely to do things such as: spread a flop in a stud game; drop the deck on sixth street; burn and turn (of course); and forget to take a rake. Feel free to include some of the whackier things you've seen good, solid dealers do. I know one time, I pitched the cards backwards in stud, starting with seat 8, and finishing with seat 1. (Remember that the arbitrator probably doesn't know too much poker lingo, or procedure)

--that a floorman's primary responsibility is to settle disputes in the game, AND CORRECT DEALER MISTAKES. Mention that it is a rare shift when you don't make at least 2-3 floor calls. Dealer errors are so common, that they are expected, and routinely dealt with. If a dealer has more of these errors than most other dealers, management deals with it via training, or if that doesn't work, disciplinary action. If you have a dealer who rarely calls the floor to fix a screw-up, you don't come down too hard on him for accidentally exposing a stud players' hole card--and you certainly don't fire him.

--that sometimes a dealer should NOT take a rake, even when the pot is large enough. For example, if everyone folds before the dealer can get the rake, it is bad form for the dealer to take the money out of the pot just before he pushes it to the winner. In this case, dealers are instructed to WAIVE the rake.

(I don't know if that happened in one of those three pots in question--but it certainly might've.)

--Briefly describe your qualifications as an expert on poker dealing procedures (experience, etc).

I'd like to have at least 3 such letters to present at my hearing. I was told today that I should hear back in a week or two, telling me the date of the hearing.

If any of you feel that I was unjustly terminated, here's your chance to help!

When you're ready to mail it, PM me for my address.

Thanks in advance to all.

And one more thing: try not to be as WORDY as I am! Less is more--be concise!

[Yeknom58]

So to make a long story short, they fired you because they figured you were in on the rake/tip scam that the next dealer committed. Wow that kinda sucks. I would get a lawyer and sue the casino..this sure seems like unlawful termination to me.

[Quaalude]

Bummage, man.

[ QUOTE ]

The investigator accepted my answer. He then asked me to write out a statement, detailing our conversation that I just described above. I wrote it out, signed it, and when I was finished, the poker manager came in with the termination paperwork, which included checkmarks in the boxes next to "Failure to follow company procedure" and "Dishonesty". My photo was taken, and I was 86'd from the boat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never, EVER, sign anything in a situation like this, whether it be with law enforcement or an administrative situation like this. It will not help you, and no matter how much they may pressure and/or threaten you, it will not improve your situation. You can only get yourself into more trouble by signing it.

Not that this will help you any with this case, but for future reference you might want to read up on your Weingarten Rights (your right to have someone present during interrogation).

From the employers side: Link 1

From the employees side: Link 2

-Travas

[Swampy]

Tough break, ytf. Hope you find another good gig soon. I have to take exception to what the other posters have told you so far. This is an area in which I have more than 25 years of experience. Although I can't (and wouldn't) give you legal advice, there are facts you should know.
Unless you are covered by a collective bargaining agreement, you don't have the right to have another person with you during a disciplinary discussion -- Weingarten rights for non-union employees were struck down last year in a Supreme Court decision.
In addition, there is nothing that indicates your termination was unlawful -- a rotten thing to do, perhaps, but not illegal. Regarding the unemployment aspect, even if the examiner finds that you were engaged in misconduct, your benefits may be delayed for a period of time, but it's unlikely they will be flat out denied. However, bringing in statements from people who don't work for your former employer about industry standard working conditions probably won't carry much weight in your appeal -- by all means, present the documents; just don't expect much. Get as familiar as you can with the appeal process and be sure you file everything timely; don't have a valid appeal knocked down over some procedural error such as a missed deadline.

[Trainwreck]

THAT SUCKS!

What casino was it, so we know whose got a thumb up their behinds?

Personally, the first words out of my mouth on his, we have u doing this this and this, is: SHOW ME!

$3 in tokes? Sounds like someone had it in for ya.

>TW<

[radek2166]

Man that just sucks!!!!!!!! it is a sad state of affaris when [censored] like this happenes.

[tubalkain]

Where was it you were working? Some of us might want to avoid that place.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I am surprised no one at the casino brought up the subject of the casino violating labor laws by making you work so many downs without a break. Four or five downs is the MAXIMUM anyone should work dealing poker, because even the best dealers WILL start to lose focus after that long with no break.

Your being fired over this is absolutely ridiculous. However, it might be a blessing in disguise, and any place that anal probably isn't worth working at anyway.

al

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
Your being fired over this is absolutely ridiculous. However, it might be a blessing in disguise, and any place that anal probably isn't worth working at anyway.


[/ QUOTE ]

It is unfortunate the YTF lost his job when he did. Where he was working is the worst managed casino I have ever been associated with. They have the potential to be the leader in their market, but they have made a decision not to employ anyone with real experience in the industry.

RR

edited for a typo

[youtalkfunny]

Wow. You guys are a lot more sympathetic than the OOT crowd, which was split.

I appreciate the advice such as "never sign anything", but in my opinion (and it seems, in the opinion of most here), I didn't do anything wrong. If they want to fire me for that, I don't want to work there. I had the oppurtunity to appeal my dismissal, but chose not to pursue it--I had no interest in working there.

Don't feel bad for me. I'm happier since I left there.

(I'm not mentioning the name of the place, because I have a lot of good friends who deal there, and they're already suffering from lost income because the place drives away the customers--and I don't wish to contribute to that. Besides, most of you who live in this part of the country, already know which room I worked at.)

Come on, guys, I need letters. It only takes a few of you.

If you'd like to volunteer, but the daunting task of typing an entire letter seems like too huge an investment in time, then I'LL type one up, send it to you, and you can print it and sign it (if you agree with what is on the page). I'll even Neteller you the 37-cents for the stamp. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]