Poker vs Tournament Poker and the FTOP

[Vince Lepore]

Sklansky's Fundamental theory of poker:

[ QUOTE ]
Every time you play a hand differently from the way you would have played it if you could see all your opponents cards, they gain; and every time you play your hand the same way you would have played it if you could see all of their cards, they lose. Conversely every time opponents play their hands differently from the way they would have if they could see all of your cards, you gain; and every time they play hands the same way they would have if they could see all of your cards, you lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the sake of argument lets agree that this Theorem is true. Let's say that you and your opponents play your hands so that you all follow the Theorem precisely as stated. If that is the case, then what should you and your opponents expect throughout your long illustrious careers? All things being equal and all of you playing mistake free, why, you must, in the long run , break even. Can we agree on this?

If we agree then we can say that for a live poker match, playing perfectly, according to the FTOP by all players, poker is an even game. The question now becomes can all players follow the FTOP in a tournament and obtain the same results. That is, by playing according to the FTOP will everyone break even. Everyone that has played a fair number of tournaments understands that in all poker tournaments, the one most critical difference from playing live, is that the blinds or antes escalate on a predetermined basis. They might go up every hour, 90 minutes or 2 hours, but in all tournaments we see this feature. Examining the FTOP we find nothing that adresses blinds or antes or the cost of playing. Consequently, we must assume that each player, playing according to the FTOP, has an adequate bankroll with relation to the cost of playing. That means that it doesn’t matter how much they lose on a given hand or for a given period. They can replenish their chips from their bankroll. That keeps everything even. Can we agree? I hope so. In tournaments everyone usually starts with the same fixed bankroll, which is usually adequate for the starting limits. We also find that that that bankroll changes almost on a regular basis. However, if it goes down it cannot be brought back up through replenishment. If the starting bankroll goes down to zero then the player is eliminated from the tournament and the remaining players vie for the prize. Because of the escalating cost of playing each player (except in some cases one player) must reach a point where he finds that his bankroll is not adequate to cover that cost of playing This continues to a point where the decision to play is not voluntary but occurs because one only has enough chips to cover the cost or some portion of it. This last point cause all players save one in some instances to play in accordance with the FTOP. They must in effect, no in practice, gamble all of their chips on what is basically a coin toss, in a situation not of their chosing. Throughout the tournament players are eliminated because they are unable to replenish their stacks and not necessarily because they play bad. Inevitably players reach a point where they are forced to make decisions based not on the FTOP but on their stack size. This in a nutshell is the difference between playing live and playing in a tournament. It is why even the best tournament players must vary at some point from playing in accordance with the FTOP and gamble whether they want to or not.

There are non poker playing skills that can be developed for playing tournaments. The most important skill might be knowing how to survive to a point where one needs to get lucky or not get unlucky. There are other important skills also. Because of these skills I believe that it is possible for a player to develop a positive EV in tournament play if he masters these skills in addition to poker skills. I have referred to Tournaments as Gambling games or crap shoots. For those not skilled in tournament play, even great poker players, I believe that this is true. For a poker playing professional a tournament is most always a negative EV event. The exception might be in tournaments in which there is a great overlay created by a huge number of bad players such as the past few WSOP Final Events. The recent proliferation of big buy-in tournaments makes it wise for the poker playing professional to learn and devlop Tournament Skills. It might definitely be worth his while.

This is such a good essay that Mason should put it in the Monthly magazine.

Yes, I think that would be nice.

Vince

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Sklansky's Fundamental theory of poker:

[ QUOTE ]
Every time you play a hand differently from the way you would have played it if you could see all your opponents cards, they gain; and every time you play your hand the same way you would have played it if you could see all of their cards, they lose. Conversely every time opponents play their hands differently from the way they would have if they could see all of your cards, you gain; and every time they play hands the same way they would have if they could see all of your cards, you lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the sake of argument lets agree that this Theorem is true. Let's say that you and your opponents play your hands so that you all follow the Theorem precisely as stated. If that is the case, then what should you and your opponents expect throughout your long illustrious careers? All things being equal and all of you playing mistake free, why, you must, in the long run , break even. Can we agree on this?

If we agree then we can say that for a live poker match, playing perfectly, according to the FTOP by all players, poker is an even game. The question now becomes can all players follow the FTOP in a tournament and obtain the same results. That is, by playing according to the FTOP will everyone break even. Everyone that has played a fair number of tournaments understands that in all poker tournaments, the one most critical difference from playing live, is that the blinds or antes escalate on a predetermined basis. They might go up every hour, 90 minutes or 2 hours, but in all tournaments we see this feature. Examining the FTOP we find nothing that adresses blinds or antes or the cost of playing. Consequently, we must assume that each player, playing according to the FTOP, has an adequate bankroll with relation to the cost of playing. That means that it doesn’t matter how much they lose on a given hand or for a given period. They can replenish their chips from their bankroll. That keeps everything even. Can we agree? I hope so. In tournaments everyone usually starts with the same fixed bankroll, which is usually adequate for the starting limits. We also find that that that bankroll changes almost on a regular basis. However, if it goes down it cannot be brought back up through replenishment. If the starting bankroll goes down to zero then the player is eliminated from the tournament and the remaining players vie for the prize. Because of the escalating cost of playing each player (except in some cases one player) must reach a point where he finds that his bankroll is not adequate to cover that cost of playing This continues to a point where the decision to play is not voluntary but occurs because one only has enough chips to cover the cost or some portion of it. This last point cause all players save one in some instances to play in accordance with the FTOP. They must in effect, no in practice, gamble all of their chips on what is basically a coin toss, in a situation not of their chosing. Throughout the tournament players are eliminated because they are unable to replenish their stacks and not necessarily because they play bad. Inevitably players reach a point where they are forced to make decisions based not on the FTOP but on their stack size. This in a nutshell is the difference between playing live and playing in a tournament. It is why even the best tournament players must vary at some point from playing in accordance with the FTOP and gamble whether they want to or not.

There are non poker playing skills that can be developed for playing tournaments. The most important skill might be knowing how to survive to a point where one needs to get lucky or not get unlucky. There are other important skills also. Because of these skills I believe that it is possible for a player to develop a positive EV in tournament play if he masters these skills in addition to poker skills. I have referred to Tournaments as Gambling games or crap shoots. For those not skilled in tournament play, even great poker players, I believe that this is true. For a poker playing professional a tournament is most always a negative EV event. The exception might be in tournaments in which there is a great overlay created by a huge number of bad players such as the past few WSOP Final Events. The recent proliferation of big buy-in tournaments makes it wise for the poker playing professional to learn and devlop Tournament Skills. It might definitely be worth his while.

This is such a good essay that Mason should put it in the Monthly magazine.

Yes, I think that would be nice.

Vince

[/ QUOTE ]

He may just do that if you learned how to post things in the appropriate forum.

[Robrizob]

Earth-shattering stuff here. Tournament play differs from live play because the blinds increase--who'd a thunk it. I think my head might explode.

[Vince Lepore]

If that is your only comment why don't you complain to the forum master you dope.

Vicne