To Slowplay or Not? (Two Hands give me a line)

droolie · #1 03-30-2005, 11:16 AM

Hand 1:
Button is a LAG and I suspect he's steaming right now as since I sat down my stack has doubled and his has been chopped in half. He bluffed me out of a pot early in the evening (he showed?? duh!) but since then I've shown down everything that had a chance against him. Just before this hand somebody typed into the chat "There's a new sherriff in town..."

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, Hero ???

Hand 2:
(I know my limping with this hand is suspect at best but what happens next is interesting...)

Villian was aggro preflop but totally passive post flop...

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, Button raises, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ???

iluzion · #2 03-30-2005, 11:19 AM

im almost always against slow playing.

hand 1: definitly don't slowplay that flop, they are expecting you to bet it. anyone with an ace is gonna give you action. dont scare them by check-raising or taking off on the turn.

hand 2: slowplay is iffy, but theres a good chance button will bet since its heads up, i call his flop bet and check/raise turn if you think hes aggressive enough, if not i either check/raise his bet on flop or at the least, lead the turn.

KaiShin · #3 03-30-2005, 11:21 AM

Hand 1:
You want to slowplay in a 5-way pot against a LAG Button? No way, bet out.

Hand 2:
This seems like a decent candidate for a slowplay. Heads up, small pot, plus a PFR who will likely fold to sustained aggression. You've got a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], which cuts down a little on flush possibilities. Of course if the flop gets checked through it would really suck. Still, I think I'd take the chance and check here.

davelin · #4 03-30-2005, 11:23 AM

Hand 1 - Betting is the pot-building move, not check-raising.
Hand 2 - Raise pre-flop or fold (but you know that). Passive opponent? Easy bet.

thesharpie · #5 03-30-2005, 11:26 AM

Hand 1 I wouldn't slowplay.

Hand 2 I was thinking about slowplaying but even if villain has a decent raising hand, like pocket 10s, he still might not bet it if he's as passive as you say he is. Plus he's agressive PF so he might raise any hand he's gonna play in this position PF, and the flop could've easily missed him completely.

So fast play both. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Dave G. · #6 03-30-2005, 11:27 AM

Hand 1: Hero bets. You'll get calls or better from any ace, slowplaying here just costs you bets. If it's raised, 3-bet. If the button is steaming and he has an ace, he'll probably go nuts on you here. If the other players missed the flop, they probably aren't going to call any on the turn UI, but they might peel one off on the flop, so take their money now.

Hand 2: If villain is totally passive postflop, then betting out is probably best. You can't check/call then check/raise the turn (which I'd do against a more aggressive player) because you can't rely on him to bet both times. Missing an SB on the flop wouldn't be bad, but you really don't want to miss a BB on the turn.

Marquis · #7 03-30-2005, 11:40 AM

Hand 1:
I go for the bet on the flop, and smooth call a button raise. Assuming MP1 and/or MP2 stick around the BB folds, I lead the turn to trap them.

Hand 2:
I'm surprised that you limped with that hand. I think it's worse than "suspect." Check-raising the turn seems like the best line here.

Post the ensuing action so we can play along.

Marquis · #8 03-30-2005, 11:54 AM

More on hand 2:
The only way we're really gonna make money on this hand is if he has one Ace. Lets assume he has either AK or KK or the equivalent.

If you bet the flop, turn and river when he has AK, he'll probably just call you down because he is passive. Hero makes 2.5 BB. If you bet the flop and he has KK, he might just fold right there. So if he has KK and he calls you down half the time, you make 1.25 BB.

But if you check-call the flop and check-raise the turn when he has AK, I think you make 3.5 BB every time. If he has KK you'll probably commmit him enough times to still make at least 1.5BB, even if he checks the turn behind and calls your river bet.

DMBFan23 · #9 03-30-2005, 11:56 AM

Hand 1: you raised preflop, so I think a flop bet will not seem out of line at all. I'm gonna bet and hope an ace raises, then he's gonna get three bet.

Hand 2: I usually check raise the flop in these kinds of spots, but just calling the flop and checkraising the turn might win you more. I'd mix this one up with a strong inclination towards checkraising the flop and playing it pretty fast from there. if three bet on the flop I'm checkraising the turn too.

droolie · #10 03-30-2005, 12:01 PM

Hand 1:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Button raises, BB folds, Hero??

This flop bet was a very easy one. There's absolutely no way I check here after raising pf. It would be criminal. Once button raises though I have another choice. (I knew he would raise before I bet if you want a hint where I'm going with this...)

Hand 2:

(I've begun 8-tabling lately and it has me doing many suspect things pre-flop and postflop. It's a leak but hey, 17.5BB/100 on 8 tables is better than 5.61BB/100 on four right? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] I'll post another thread sometime on my thoughts on this experiment)

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, Button raises, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

I really wanted to extract some value from this hand. The pot was small and if villian had no A he might fold if I bet into him after he was the preflop raiser. I know there is a decent chance he has an A and will bet. By checking I let him represent the A and try to steal the pot. He's passive but HU even passive players will try to steal this pot here without the A sometimes. After that decision there's no point check-raising here as it will completely defeat the purpose... so I call. My only misgivings about this play were the two to a flush on the board. Not because I was afraid of losing to a flush but because a flush card would kill my slowplay. At this point I'm praying he really has the A and that the turn will be a non diamond as I don't want to "come alive" on a scare card.

Turn: (3.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero???