Three SSH Principles I See Misapplied

[davelin]

Hey all, I've noticed some trends on this board and I wanted to chime in with some thoughts. The principles laid out in SSH is a powerful weapon against these games, but with any weapon can be very dangerous if not used properly. Here are some common SSH principles I see misapplied by some newer players –

1) Pre-flop play doesn’t matter, only post-flop play does.

This is not what SSH is saying, it’s just saying that most of your money is made there so spend more time refining and honing your post-flop play but it does NOT mean to totally ignore pre-flop play. I’ve seen posts where the OP will say “guys, let’s not talk about my pre-flop play, it’s only post-flop play matters.” It still matters, not as much but it still does.

And I’ll tell you something that I think is 95% true. If you’re a weak pre-flop player, you’re probably a weak post-flop player. If you make too many loose limps and cold-calls pre-flop, you’re probably making loose calls post-flop. You don’t raise hands pre-flop where you have an equity edge, you’re probably not being aggressive enough post-flop when you have a good hand.

2) Don’t ever fold for one bet in a big pot on the river.

Don’t fold when you think you have a REASONABLE chance of winning. You have to consider a) what possible range of hands your opponent has that could be playing this way, does your A-high beat this possible range? b) if you’re overcalling, the chance you have of winning drops considerably and c) if there’s a possible raiser behind you, you have to consider the fact that you may have to put more than one bet on the river. This principle is a collarary to the pot-odds question, am I good one-in-(pot size) chances here? I think some players take this mantra too far.

3) Protecting your hands on the flop with good but vulnerable hands.

Having the flop checked through is not protection so stop thinking about the check-raise when you were the pre-flop raiser. You can’t raise someone who doesn’t bet. Sometimes you just can’t protect your hands no matter how much you want to try. Depending on the pot size, typically a bet on the flop protects you from 2-3 outers, raising a bet protects you from 4-5 outers. But OESD and flush draws are your companions to the end (thanks GrunchCan)! You can’t protect yourself against them so just bet for value. Bet and raise when you can, sometimes that’s just the best you can do.

[NAU_Player]

You get a cookie!


Nice post [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Pre-flop play doesn’t matter, only post-flop play does.

This is not what SSH is saying, it’s just saying that most of your money is made there so spend more time refining and honing your post-flop play but it does NOT mean to totally ignore pre-flop play. I’ve seen posts where the OP will say “guys, let’s not talk about my pre-flop play, it’s only post-flop play matters.” It still matters, not as much but it still does.

And I’ll tell you something that I think is 95% true. If you’re a weak pre-flop player, you’re probably a weak post-flop player. If you make too many loose limps and cold-calls pre-flop, you’re probably making loose calls post-flop. You don’t raise hands pre-flop where you have an equity edge, you’re probably not being aggressive enough post-flop when you have a good hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

this is how i approach some of those "iffy" hands where i'm still not sure if i should play them prf:

if you don't know IF you should play them PREFLOP, you won't how HOW to play them POSTFLOP.

i think you can say the same thing about the decision whether to call or raise too.

VERY GOOD POST. Focus on Preflop play so you're not sitting postflop thinking "i don't even know if i should have taken this hand this far".

[istewart]

Good post.

To add, keep posting marginal hands and tough decisions. Stop posting quads, boats, royals where you're curious about missing out on value.

[deception5]

Great post, thanks for the advice!

I'm no expert but based on my experiences I would also add to #1 that loose play preflop will put you in bad situations postflop and cause you to lose even more money. Cold calling a raise with KTo and flopping your king is likely to cost you more than the 2 SB preflop.

D5

[MrWookie47]

While it's not necessarily a SSH principle that's misapplied, I think slowplaying is one of the most frequently posted things that people are repeatedly chastised for.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]

3) Protecting your hands on the flop with good but vulnerable hands.

Having the flop checked through is not protection so stop thinking about the check-raise when you were the pre-flop raiser. You can’t raise someone who doesn’t bet. Sometimes you just can’t protect your hands no matter how much you want to try. Depending on the pot size, typically a bet on the flop protects you from 2-3 outers, raising a bet protects you from 4-5 outers. But OESD and flush draws are your companions to the end (thanks GrunchCan)! You can’t protect yourself against them so just bet for value. Bet and raise when you can, sometimes that’s just the best you can do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: #2, thanks.

Re: #1, this is true, but I'm also sick of people coming into a thread saying "fold preflop" without saying why or without commenting on the rest of the hand.

Re: #3

Agreed! Whenever you're checkraising the flop, ask yourself, WHO am I checkraising? i.e. Which particular player will bet this flop and why? If you can answer this question, you can checkraise.

If not, then don't do it unless the board is nice enough and the table is aggressive enough that you know SOMEONE will bet it.

[Iron Tigran]

[ QUOTE ]
While it's not necessarily a SSH principle that's misapplied, I think slowplaying is one of the most frequently posted things that people are repeatedly chastised for.

[/ QUOTE ]

Word. It's the TV shows. Seems 4 out of 5 times, the first to act checks if he flopped top pair, 2 pair, etc. So, folks see this and also try it, not understanding they can never get the kind of odds NL players can.

They need to watch Haveson getting run down twice in back to back (televised) hands on the 2004 USPC when he slowplayed. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[tiltaholic]

great post davelin.

To add one thing about preflop play for people learning to play:

Just because SSHE may recommend playing a certain hand preflop, this does not mean "you" MUST play that way when you are just starting out. Fold them. Hands like ATo, A9o, (and other Axo), QJo, QTo, JTo, and KJo can be troublesome to get a feel for at first. Just because SSHE says, "limp them in LP" doesn't mean they must be limped. If you don't have a clear plan or reasoning behind WHY and WHEN and AGAINST WHOM these hands (or any preflop hand) can be played, just fold them at first. Work them into your game as you get more proficient. I know I am still doing this in varying degrees for all of those hands and then some.

[GrunchCan]

High bump factor on this post. Good one.